[Trade] Tkachuk (8 yrs x $9.5 mil) + `25 4th to FLA for Huberdeau, Weegar, Schwindt & `25 1st

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Bingo

To me it's super inconsistent to spend so many assets on rentals and then just jettison your own.

Especially how they've decimated their defense with Weegar gone.

They're win now, but arguably worse because of the trade in the next year, before Tkachuk being around makes them better and extends their window.

Getting rid of Weegar was the part that was weird to me - dmen age better than forwards generally too.

Honestly if Florida offers Huberdeau, Gudas, 1st, Schwindt...I think that still might get done.

And I think Florida will be worse next year for sure. Florida will start the season with Tkachuk but will be missing Huberdeau, Weegar, Marchment, Giroux, Chiarot, Acciari from last years playoff roster and will be missing Duclair due to his injury.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Getting rid of Weegar was the part that was weird to me - dmen age better than forwards generally too.

Honestly if Florida offers Huberdeau, Gudas, 1st, Schwindt...I think that still might get done.

If Treliving just turned around and flipped Huberdeau you wouldn't even need Gudas in that deal.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by bdubbs

But then it doesn't sound nearly as bad, and we couldn't have that...

[Macho0978]

I don't mind the deal for Florida and their situation isn't all due to this trade but

Tkachuk players 88% of his ES ice with Gaudreau and 81% with Gaudreau and Lindholm

Huderdeau played 24% of his ES ice with Barkov.

Huberdeau was a 115 point player with Bennet as his top linemate.

I will believe it when I see it that Tkachuk can get 115 with Bennett as his top linemate.

Huberdeau only played 77% of his PP ice with Barkov. Still a high percent but they often played 2 even units.

IMO in the same situation Tkachuk is a 70 point player

Florida could have resigned Huberdeau and they are now down a first in 3 straight years. Not sure they are better for awhile IMO

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Saqe

lol

It is kind of funny to see the inconsistency in your age rounding.

Rounded up a year and a half on Weegar, 0.8 years on Huberdeau, yet rounding down 0.6 years on Tkachuk.

[Saqe]

Are you guys serious? This is what gets you wound up?


Lets just say they have four years apart in age so everyone can feel better.

[djsFlames]

Saqe speaks as if resigning Tkachuk was an option?

Kinda wasn't.

Flames came away with the best player in the deal. Tkachuk has never been a line driver. Maybe he'll become that but he has to elevate his game quite a bit to get there.

Huberdeau managed the 2nd most points next to Bennett. It makes his statline even more impressive. Maybe the most of any one in the race. All the other top scorers had more help (on their lines).

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Are you guys serious? This is what gets you wound up?


Lets just say they have four years apart in age so everyone can feel better.

Not sure "wound up" is a good depiction.

Or you could say four years apart because it's closer to the truth? Feelings shouldn't come into it.

[SuperMatt18]

And “2025 1st round pick” is 15 years old right now, 9 years younger than Tkachuk.

Schwindt is 3 years younger.

So two older players are combined 8 years older, and the two other pieces are a combined 12 years younger.

So in this case the flames come out 4 years younger.

Clear win for the Flames.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Are you guys serious? This is what gets you wound up?


Lets just say they have four years apart in age so everyone can feel better.

Not wound up or hurt feelings, just questioning the clear bias in your post, used to fit your narrative.

And yes, using the facts is preferred. It will help your position, too. If you’re that far off in your facts (50% gross up on the Weegar-Chucky age difference), it weakens your argument.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Saqe speaks as if resigning Tkachuk was an option?

Kinda wasn't.

What on earth are you talking about? I've never said anything like that.

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not sure "wound up" is a good depiction.

Or you could say four years apart because it's closer to the truth? Feelings shouldn't come into it.

I never said how many years they are apart. I said a 29 year old is knocking on 30 and apparently this isn't "close to factual". I mean I don't know at what point you can start saying a person in his twenties is knocking on thirties if not at 29. And then you guys start counting months? Just bizarre.

[Infinit47]

I have always questioned how well Tkachuk will age because of his skating. He will always be great on the PP, but his 5v5 effectiveness may drop sooner than other players who start with a higher skating ceiling.

Again, not sour grapes. Would have loved to get Tkachuk for 8 years under 10mil per, but that wasn't happening. The media pumped this up as a McDavid/Matthews type player moving to get clicks and views. I think the Flames came out on top because of that narrative as well as the league's old school thoughts that tough=playoff performer. Time will tell who won but this trade pulled me back from being pretty indifferent.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Saqe

What on earth are you talking about? I've never said anything like that.





I never said how many years they are apart. I said a 29 year old is knocking on 30 and apparently this isn't "close to factual". I mean I don't know at what point you can start saying a person in his twenties is knocking on thirties if not at 29. And then you guys start counting months? Just bizarre.

You're deflecting.

Weegar is 28.6 years old ... you added 1.4 to make him knocking on 30.
Tkachuk is 24.6 years old but he's not knocking on 26, he's just 24.

It's your inconsistency, maybe own it?

[butterfly]

Tkachuk at 3M line production is still a good player. Although I think they'll play him with Barkov and expect more than that.

[BrennyBaller]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

I have always questioned how well Tkachuk will age because of his skating. He will always be great on the PP, but his 5v5 effectiveness may drop sooner than other players who start with a higher skating ceiling.

Again, not sour grapes. Would have loved to get Tkachuk for 8 years under 10mil per, but that wasn't happening. The media pumped this up as a McDavid/Matthews type player moving to get clicks and views. I think the Flames came out on top because of that narrative as well as the league's old school thoughts that tough=playoff performer. Time will tell who won but this trade pulled me back from being pretty indifferent.

I agree with you, it's always been a concern of mine. A lot of superstars fell off pretty drastically once their legs went. Heatley and Perry specifically come to mind. Perry has found a way to remain effective however, which I think Tkachuk will as well due to his hockey IQ.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Are you guys serious? This is what gets you wound up?


Lets just say they have four years apart in age so everyone can feel better.

Nobody is wound up...it's a fair comment, there was obviously some convenient rounding being done

If the Panthers win the presidents trophy and make round three I will admit they made a good move. Right now it seems like a step back though. There were really in win now mode and suddenly it's all about the future (that looks worse on paper than last season)

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Tkachuk at 3M line production is still a good player. Although I think they'll play him with Barkov and expect more than that.

Good player but 9.5M and give up 4 firsts good?

[SixtySix]

Originally Posted by Saqe

What on earth are you talking about? I've never said anything like that.





I never said how many years they are apart. I said a 29 year old is knocking on 30 and apparently this isn't "close to factual". I mean I don't know at what point you can start saying a person in his twenties is knocking on thirties if not at 29. And then you guys start counting months? Just bizarre.

you're being intellectually dishonest and disingenuous. what's being called out is the fact that your language was clearly deliberately crafted to support your narrative. it's not fundamentally about how far from the truth it is. the reverse of that would be to say something like "huberdeau and weegar are only a few years apart from tkachuk and the difference is negligible". either way you can still do the 'dude, what? it's basically accurate, what are you getting wound up about?' thing. but if you're going to type in a way where you assume everyone else is stupid then expect some backlash for it from those who see through it. alternatively, you can just omit your bias when using data to make your point.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You're deflecting.

Weegar is 28.6 years old ... you added 1.4 to make him knocking on 30.
Tkachuk is 24.6 years old but he's not knocking on 26, he's just 24.

It's your inconsistency, maybe own it?

My whole point was to say it meant sense for the Panthers because they got younger with Tkachuck and they were never going to be able to re-sign both Huberdeau and Weegar, who was going to be a rental for them this year.



I never paid attention to their exact age but somehow that is an extremely sensitive point which is ridiculous especially when Huberdeau WILL be 30 when his new deal begins and Weegar shortly after.



At what point can you say they are knocking on 30? When they are 29.9 years old? Jesus.

[SuperMatt18]

IMO the age thing is a bit of a non-factor because IMO the Panthers window is the next three seasons.

Is Tkachuk from age 24-28 going to be make the Panthers considerably better than having Huberdeau & Weegar from age 29-33.

Sure he will be better from 28-32 than those two would have been from 33-37 but really the next 3 years is their "window".

These 7 players make up that core of panthers who are 26-28 years old, that are on below market value contracts, and all 7 hit UFA in the next three seasons:

Reinhart: 2 x $6.5M
Bennett: 3 x $4.4M
Verhaeghe: 3 x $4.2M
Duclair: 2 x $3M
Ekblad: 3 x $7.5M
Montour: 2 x $3.5M
Forsling: 2 x $2.6M

They only have 3 players signed longer than they next three years - Barkov 8 x $10, Tkachuk 8 x $9.5M, Bobrovsky 4 x $10. And they don't really have much of a prospect pool beyond Lundell, Knight, and Denisenko to fill in, and no firsts and only 2 seconds over the next three seasons.

I do get why they'd be more comfortable giving Tkachuk a big 8 year contract at 24 than they would giving Huberdeau that contract at 29 but that kind of downplays their actual window. Plus Huberdeau and Weegar were still great value for one more year - so that has to be factored in too because they could have re-signed them and still had them on great deals for one more year.