Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Kovaz

Good

• He gets just as many chances
• He's finishing his chances when he gets them

How does that work? If he's getting just as many chances and finishing them as the top six forwards, why do the top six forwards have 20+ goals and he's yet to hit double digit...

[Kovaz]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

How does that work? If he's getting just as many chances and finishing them as the top six forwards, why do the top six forwards have 20+ goals and he's yet to hit double digit...

Nobody has 20 5v5 goals and Bennett doesn't play on the powerplay. For example Monahan has 11 5v5 goals in 977 minutes vs Bennett's 8 5v5 goals in 592 minutes.

Powerplay scoring isn't to be ignored, but it also shouldn't be taken into account when evaluating 5v5 play

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

If I was Bennett I would bet on myself and demand a trade

Sure. Doesn't mean the Flames have to accommodate him. He doesn't have a ton of leverage.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Saqe

I can't remember the last Flames player that has been analyzed as much as Bennett.

As far as young guys go:
Baertschi.
Dustin Boyd, albeit over a much smaller period of time.

But neither of those chaps were the Flames highest ever draft pick...doesn’t help either that the guy picked right before him has 110 points so far this year, and the guy picked 21 spots lower, leads the league in goals.

Sam may have trouble hitting 17 points. But he will have one or two games down the stretch where he resembles something similar to what he was drafted for, only to fade away into the rink board ads the remainder of the games.

[DoubleK]

This thread is still going?

If Bennett wasn't a third liner at best, this wouldn't be a thing.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

This thread is still going?

If Bennett wasn't a third liner at best, this wouldn't be a thing.

A scene from from The Replacements explains my sentiments best, and perhaps those of other Bennett supporters as well.

Falco: Hey coach can I ask you a question?

McGinty: Sure.

Falco: Why me?

McGinty: I look at you, and I see two men. The man you are now... and the man you ought to be. Some day those two will meet. Should make for a HELL of a football player.

There's this inexplicable gut feeling involved that this will happen for Sam. Is it illogical to think? Sure. Are the odds stacked against him at this point in his career? Absolutely.

Still think it will happen and I just don't want him to be wearing anything other than the Flaming C when it does. That's all.

[Saqe]

@DeluxeMoustache


I can't say why three different coaches haven't given him more time in the top six other than logically assume they all thought he wasn't good enough. And I agree with them. Whether it's the "hockey IQ" or whatever is stopping him, he just doesn't look like he thinks the game at a high level.


This could change of course but he's had of time to develop his game and it hasn't happened. Maybe the Flames have mishandled him but a large part of that development or lack of should fall on him too.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Saqe

@DeluxeMoustache


I can't say why three different coaches haven't given him more time in the top six other than logically assume they all thought he wasn't good enough. And I agree with them. Whether it's the "hockey IQ" or whatever is stopping him, he just doesn't look like he thinks the game at a high level.


This could change of course but he's had of time to develop his game and it hasn't happened. Maybe the Flames have mishandled him but a large part of that development or lack of should fall on him too.

I understand how you can say that, and will say this.

Three coaches in 2 years. None of them have proven to be successful at the NHL level. The first two we have seen end up being really ineffective, ending with a whimper, and the third one, well, he wasn’t even hired to be the head coach.

You have heard players, when discussing coaches during the time of controversy this year, being quite open and saying that many NHL coaches are frankly not that smart. Who is to say any of these three guys we are appealing to are any good?

We will park that, though.

In year 2, he got bumped from 3M so they could give Tkachuk the same treatment he got in year 1, and he wasn’t displacing Hudler on the wing with Johnny and Monny. I get that, it’s fine.

The time you mention, that he was given to develop his game, was bottom 6 time. And he has delivered bottom 6 results. That’s not a failure.

Could he do better in the middle 6? Who knows. He was put in a blender in year 2, never out produced bottom six numbers with constantly changing linemates.

With respect to him shouldering some of the blame, fine. But I will offer this for your consideration.

Buddy Robinson has had more time on a line with Johnny and Monny this year than Bennett. They call a guy up from the AHL, and play him with a guy who got 99 points last year.

That my friend is a joke. That’s the work of the coach whose opinion you are relying on.

Bennett can go point per game in the playoffs, and they can’t even give him a longer look with top 6 linemates than Buddy ####ing Robinson.

That’s just silly.

I’m not confident in the ‘coaching IQ’

[Phaneuf_Phan]

He's awesome in the playoffs. Not sure if we'll get to see them this year.

[Dajazz]

He could be a middle six player with some grit to his game.

Pro's
- Physical play style and can hit like a truck
- Elevates in play offs, maybe a result of refs easing down on whistles
- Good skater, especially on the forecheck
- Hard worker on the ice
- Fantastic moustasche


Con's
- Really bad shot and even worse shot selection, usually a sweeping wrister that starts winding up 3 feet behind him and goes top corner (if he scores)
- Decisionmaking shoot vs pass vs deke vs dump, tries to do too much on his own and relies on physical skills (which aren't that impressive when playing against NHL'ers)
- Undisciplined as a ....
- Doesn't appear to improve skills in the off season

[BigRed]

Just for fun, here's the scouting report on Sam from 2014. Highlights include:

"NHL Potential: Franchise Centre"

"Projection: Gritty, skilled, two-way #1 centre & captain"

"Style compares to: A better skating Doug Gilmour"

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/sam-...s-say/c-724235

[EastCoastFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by BigRed

Just for fun, here's the scouting report on Sam from 2014. Highlights include:

"NHL Potential: Franchise Centre"

"Projection: Gritty, skilled, two-way #1 centre & captain"

"Style compares to: A better skating Doug Gilmour"

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/sam-...s-say/c-724235

Ugh. I think we all were expecting this when we drafted Sam. I remember being so pumped when Leon get picked 1.3 and he fell right to us. Frustrating because I really think there is a player in there somewhere, but it just feels like we're never going to see it here.

[Stanley]

I personally think Bennett should play #3C consistently but this coaching staff has a constant boner for Derek Ryan so...

[Kovaz]

Originally Posted by Stanley

I personally think Bennett should play #3C consistently but this coaching staff has a constant boner for Derek Ryan so...

To be fair, Ryan's been excellent this year and last year. That's why I think we should run X-Bennett-Ryan as the third line and have them each take draws on their strong side and share the defensive duties.

[Kovaz]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

A scene from from The Replacements explains my sentiments best, and perhaps those of other Bennett supporters as well.

There's this inexplicable gut feeling involved that this will happen for Sam. Is it illogical to think? Sure. Are the odds stacked against him at this point in his career? Absolutely.

Still think it will happen and I just don't want him to be wearing anything other than the Flaming C when it does. That's all.

That's kind of where I'm coming from too. Bennett has so many attributes that you want in the playoffs - the competitiveness, the physicality, the willingness to go to the dirty areas. There's so much value in the player he could be. We need more of that, not less.

Especially when his production is totally fine for a third-liner - what do we lose by giving him a consistent shift there? I'd rather overcommit to Bennett than do what we're doing now - which effectively guarantees he never becomes the player he could be.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Bennett can go point per game in the playoffs, and they can’t even give him a longer look with top 6 linemates than Buddy ####ing Robinson.

I'll bust this post out again as it is important to put Bennett's "big playoff performance" into context.

Game One: 4-0 win. 9:56 seconds of ice time (2nd lowest on the team), 2:20 of it on the PP (tied for 2nd highest). Bennett gets a PP assist off a pass from behind the goal line to Backlund on the half wall, who scores on a wrist shot the goaltender would have liked back.



Game Two: 3-2 loss. 15:37 seconds of ice time (2nd lowest on the team), 4:51 of it on the PP (tied for highest). Bennett gets a PP assist off a blind backhand pass from the corner of the goal that misses James Neal in the slot but finds Andersson pinching in from the point.



Bennett also gets second PP assist on a wild spin around shot attempt that he whiffs on, but it bounces off a defender and goes right to Monahan, who goes top shelf.



Game Three: 6-2 loss. 10:30 seconds of ice time (2nd lowest on the team), 2:01 of it on the PP (7th on the team). Bennett scores a PP goal from inside the crease when Andersson sends a hard pass through the slot from the left hash marks. Bennett completely misses the shot attempt, but the puck hits his skate and angles into the goal. What a snipe!



Game Four: 3-2 loss. 12:23 seconds of ice time (lowest on the team), :26 of it on the PP (7th on the team). Was on the ice for two even strength goals against.

Game Five: 5-1 loss. 17:45 seconds of ice time (tied for 4th on the team), 1:48 of it on the PP (tied for 2nd). Bennett intercepts a clearing attempt along the boards and then makes a blind backhand pass toward the slot. Brodie and Monahan are in the vicinity and Brodie grabs the puck and goes goes shelf with a great shot.



Four PP points and pretty well none of them skill plays. Bennett mishandled most of the pucks and they happen to work out. That wasn't a great playoff performance, that was just some unreal puck luck. Bennett definitely deserved some luck after some of the horrible bounces he had through out the season. But this was obviously not a player "stepping up his game" it was just things going his way. If it were not for the bounces on the PP we would be looking back at that series as another number of games where Bennett had very limited ice time and didn't accomplish much. But because of those PP "heroics" the legend of Sam Bennett continues to grow.

Sam Bennett is not a good hockey player. He is low skilled and doesn't have a hockey IQ to speak of. He has been given opportunity and hasn't produced with any level of consistency. There is a reason why he is playing on the 4th line, that is where his skill level is. I pray he demands a trade just so we can end these arguments once and for all.

[Harry Lime]

I can't help but think that all of the links are broken on purpose.

Sam Bennett was a playoff beast away from the puck, and the high danger scoring chances that these "flukey" goals resulted in, were due to his hard work. No one ever said that he is a pretty player, but what has been said over and over again is that he continuously makes plays that are a nightmare for a goalie. That is pucks in front of the net, with traffic. I don't really care if he gets there by carrying his stick upside down and skating backwards the whole way.

Bennett's game only really works well if he is in the centre of the ice. He produces garbage goals, and creates the chaos for others to get garbage goals. Who cares that they are not dangling things of beauty?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I can't help but think that all of the links are broken on purpose.

Okay, now it's a conspiracy theory to make Bennett look bad. Every single link works and are directly from NHL.com. The only thing that makes Sam Bennett look bad is Sam Bennett.

Sam Bennett was a playoff beast away from the puck, and the high danger scoring chances that these "flukey" goals resulted in, were due to his hard work. No one ever said that he is a pretty player, but what has been said over and over again is that he continuously makes plays that are a nightmare for a goalie. That is pucks in front of the net, with traffic. I don't really care if he gets there by carrying his stick upside down and skating backwards the whole way.

Video says otherwise.

Bennett's game only really works well if he is in the centre of the ice. He produces garbage goals, and creates the chaos for others to get garbage goals. Who cares that they are not dangling things of beauty?

Again, video says otherwise. Points from low danger areas with the exception of the goal that Andersson managed to bounce in off of Bennett after he whiffed on the one timer.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by BigRed

Just for fun, here's the scouting report on Sam from 2014. Highlights include:

"NHL Potential: Franchise Centre"

"Projection: Gritty, skilled, two-way #1 centre & captain"

"Style compares to: A better skating Doug Gilmour"

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/sam-...s-say/c-724235

It's painful to imagine if the flames had that Bennett instead of actual Bennet + Neal/Lucic. Cup window would be wide open right now, instead they've just extended the misery of being a first round bounce team.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by BigRed

Just for fun, here's the scouting report on Sam from 2014. Highlights include:

"NHL Potential: Franchise Centre"

"Projection: Gritty, skilled, two-way #1 centre & captain"

"Style compares to: A better skating Kent Manderville"

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/sam-...s-say/c-724235

Updated for better comparison.