The fun part about a thread is that you don't have to open it.
Yeah, but I hate that bold unread thread. I wish we could hide threads we don;t want to see. I’m not a jersey/goalie mask thread guy and I’d love to hide those.
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Yeah, but I hate that bold unread thread. I wish we could hide threads we don;t want to see. I’m not a jersey/goalie mask thread guy and I’d love to hide those.
If you see a thread you don't want to read but simply must have it "marked as read" then simply click on "Last Page". Scroll quickly to the bottom and hit the "Go" button (or select a different forum) beside the forum jump box. There, it's read and you didn't have to read it.
So you are cheering against the Flames? Because Tre isn't getting fired because a player that asked for a trade does well
There are only two games a year where cheering for Sam Bennett would equal cheering against the Flames, unless the Flames are playing the Panthers way more than I am currently aware of.
Getting rid of Treliving would be a net positive for the Flames, although I agree I doubt he gets fired for the tire fire that was the development of Sam Bennett. There are ample reasons to make that move outside of the Bennett situation.
There are only two games a year where cheering for Sam Bennett would equal cheering against the Flames, unless the Flames are playing the Panthers way more than I am currently aware of.
Getting rid of Treliving would be a net positive for the Flames, although I agree I doubt he gets fired for the tire fire that was the development of Sam Bennett. There are ample reasons to make that move outside of the Bennett situation.
This is taking my post out of context...I was just responding to the guy who was cheering for Bennett so Tre gets fired.
If the Flames do well he won't be fired, I am cheering for the Flames.
I think the 3-0 win is making it tough for some posters daily Flames bashing. Bennett scoring one goal last night is the news of the day.
Its not so much that the Flames screwed up Sam's development. Its more so he got to Florida and instantly exploded offensively. Flames developed him, they just under utilized him and played some pretty trash system hockey that was a poor fit. I think he would have been great under Sutter this year and I'm a little disappointed that he requested a trade.
I loved Bennett and am excited that he is doing awesome, and pissed at the Flames for effing it up. IF they do better with Kylington and not let the same thing happen, that will soften the blow for me.
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If you see a thread you don't want to read but simply must have it "marked as read" then simply click on "Last Page". Scroll quickly to the bottom and hit the "Go" button (or select a different forum) beside the forum jump box. There, it's read and you didn't have to read it.
I loved Bennett and am excited that he is doing awesome, and pissed at the Flames for effing it up. IF they do better with Kylington and not let the same thing happen, that will soften the blow for me.
I really don't understand this comparison.
Bennett was highly ranked, power forward who was the highest pick in franchise history.
Kyllington was a project player who fell far down the draft because it was understood he would need a lot of time and work to become a full time NHler. Kylington has been treated nothing like Bennett.
Bennett was thrown onto the team before he was ready, never played in the AHL and was played night in night out with garbage light mates until he asked for a trade.
Kyllington played tons in the AHL, got sheltered minutes and has experienced patient development. When he plays now he is playing with one of the Flames best D men with a reputation of helping young players play their best.
The only similarity is that both players are Legends. and the Legend of Kylington grows ever day.
Just off the top of my head. All ended up being moved for reasonable prices, and two were major reasons St. Louis did what they did. I know Flash (RIP) had pretty strong feelings on BT's inability to acquire either of them.
Bennett was highly ranked, power forward who was the highest pick in franchise history.
Kyllington was a project player who fell far down the draft because it was understood he would need a lot of time and work to become a full time NHler. Kylington has been treated nothing like Bennett.
Bennett was thrown onto the team before he was ready, never played in the AHL and was played night in night out with garbage light mates until he asked for a trade.
Kyllington played tons in the AHL, got sheltered minutes and has experienced patient development. When he plays now he is playing with one of the Flames best D men with a reputation of helping young players play their best.
The only similarity is that both players are Legends. and the Legend of Kylington grows ever day.
The similarity to me is that Kylington is ready to take the next step in my opinion to become a good NHLer. Just like Bennett was ready to step it up with Darryl Sutter and was already starting to.
Bennett was never given opportunities here like he instantly got in Florida. Many of us knew he would shine.
Similarly Kylington hasn't received much of an opportunity until yesterday and he did well with it. So KEEP it going Flames and don't F it up and bench him and eventually trade him away for him to shine elsewhere.
Bennett was thrown onto the team before he was ready,
No, he wasn't. That is absolutely, 100% revisionist history.
For the sake of comparision, going into his rookie year, the three players from his draft class who were considered a similar talent/type of player after their D+1 years were Draisaitl (who was an actual example of not ready the year), Reinhart, and Larkin (whose stock rose after a great year in college). Technically, Bennett and Larkin were late birthdays whereas Draisaitl and Reinhart werd early birthdays, so the latter two would be expected to be more productive:
Bennett had a successful rookie year despite being stapled to Markus Granlund's wing for two months. His best linemate his rookie year was probably Mikael Backlund, who whilst a solid linemates, was not quite the Henrik Zetterberg that Dylan Larkin was playing with, the Ryan O'Rielly/Jack Eichel that Sam Reinhart was playing with, or the Taylor Hall that Leon Draisaitl was playing with. Regardless, his 5v5 production that year was pretty close to all three players!!
Draisaitl - 2.17 P/60 (Centered Taylor Hall)
Larkin - 2.01 P/60 (Played on Zetterberg's LW)
Bennett - 1.67 P/60 (Short-lived (but productive) stint at center, then Backlund's LW, then Granlund's LW, then Backlund's, then centered Joe Colborne)
Reinhart - 1.67 P/60 (Played on ROR and Eichel's RW)
Even without factoring in the gap in rookie year linemate quality, Bennett and Reinhart were top 120 in forward production rate in a 30 team league. So basically an average 4th-best-forward-on-a-team. As a rookie.
Of the four teams (Edmonton/Calgary/Detroit/Buffalo), Detroit and Calgary were the two that had actual realistic playoff aspirations in 2015-16, which is why Hartley had him all over the place (and also why Larkin was stapled to Zetterberg's wing in Datsyuk's final year).
Hartley was trying to give Granlund one last shot at 3C that year and did give him Bennett/Hudler as linemates but even they couldn't get ol Granny out of the D zone. When that flopped Bob needed Bennett at 2LW since this was pre-Tkachuk. As soon as we were effectively eliminated and in the same boat as the other two non-playoff teams, Bennett was moved to center, but wasn't given Gaudreau as a linemate, ostensibly because of the organizational belief in Monahan. Regardless, Hartley stated that offseason that Bennett's two-way game at center had impressed him.
It was the next year that anyonr started questioning Bennett's so-called readiness, and that was almost exclusively because of Troy Brouwer and Glen Gulutzan. But even then, by the time the playoffs had rolled around, Versteeg-Bennett-Chiasson were an effective, if unlucky 200-foot line, being tasked with some legitimate matchups (i.e. Kesler). Ironically, Bennett's disasterous sophomore year was still superior to Dylan Larkin's sophomore year. Larkin was also moved to center in the absence of Pavel Datsyuk. But that also meant a larger role was given to him.
Bennett was ready for an expanded roll as a 3rd year player.
Which he never got because ten games into centering Curtis Lazar et al, he was moved almost permanently to the wing. Until the Lucic-Bennett-Dube line reminded everyone that Sam Bennett is an awesome center. Which the Flames abandoned again because the leash on him was non-existent. In terms of icetime, I'd wager Sam Bennett's top twenty single game icetimes have all come as a Florida Panther, and I'm not sure he's even played twenty games yet.
Meanwhile Dylan Larkin actually was handled the opposite of Bennett, and saw his career trajectory go upwards.
Bennett had no leash here to be a relied-upon centreman, despite the obvious talent level that got him drafted 4th overall.
Quote:
Kyllington played tons in the AHL, got sheltered minutes and has experienced patient development
Okay, first to the AHL point - I agree with you that Kylington wasn't ready for the NHL, at least for a couple of years after his draft. However once he WAS ready, he got limited minutes in a bottom-of-lineup role - which is very much like Bennett. While the Flames never had the defenseman equivalent of Troy Brouwer to staple him to, they certainly stapled him to the pressbox.
He had no leash here to be a relied-upon defenseman, despite the obvious talent level AND the significant strides he made in the AHL.
Much like the Flames arbitrarily favoured Monahan and later Lindholm over Bennett, they have favourted Valimaki over Kylington.
Kylington played one game in the top 4 yesterday, but it's not clear that he's been given a leash to play to his potential, although I have profoundly more faith in Darryl Sutter than I do the previous three Flames coaches. Regardless, one bad shift could see him stapled to his version of Troy Brouwer(/Curtis Lazar/Mark Jankowski/Tobias Reider/Brett Ritchie) again - the pressbox.
Quote:
Then he plays now he is playing with one of the Flames best D men with a reputation of helping young players play their best.
One game. We don't even know if he'll be alongside Tanev next game yet.
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Last edited by GranteedEV; 10-22-2021 at 02:26 PM.
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No, he wasn't. That is absolutely, 100% revisionist history.
For the sake of comparision, going into his rookie year, the three players from his draft class who were considered a similar talent/type of player after their D+1 years were Draisaitl (who was an actual example of not ready the year), Reinhart, and Larkin (whose stock rose after a great year in college). Technically, Bennett and Larkin were late birthdays whereas Draisaitl and Reinhart werd early birthdays, so the latter two would be expected to be more productive:
Bennett had a successful rookie year despite being stapled to Markus Granlund's wing for two months. His best linemate his rookie year was probably Mikael Backlund, who whilst a solid linemates, was not quite the Henrik Zetterberg that Dylan Larkin was playing with, the Ryan O'Rielly/Jack Eichel that Sam Reinhart was playing with, or the Taylor Hall that Leon Draisaitl was playing with. Regardless, his 5v5 production that year was pretty close to all three players!!
Draisaitl - 2.17 P/60 (Centered Taylor Hall)
Larkin - 2.01 P/60 (Played on Zetterberg's LW)
Bennett - 1.67 P/60 (Short-lived (but productive) stint at center, then Backlund's LW, then Granlund's LW, then Backlund's, then centered Joe Colborne)
Reinhart - 1.67 P/60 (Played on ROR and Eichel's RW)
Even without factoring in the gap in rookie year linemate quality, Bennett and Reinhart were top 120 in forward production rate in a 30 team league. So basically an average 4th-best-forward-on-a-team. As a rookie.
Of the four teams (Edmonton/Calgary/Detroit/Buffalo), Detroit and Calgary were the two that had actual realistic playoff aspirations in 2015-16, which is why Hartley had him all over the place (and also why Larkin was stapled to Zetterberg's wing in Datsyuk's final year).
Hartley was trying to give Granlund one last shot at 3C that year and did give him Bennett/Hudler as linemates but even they couldn't get ol Granny out of the D zone. When that flopped Bob needed Bennett at 2LW since this was pre-Tkachuk. As soon as we were effectively eliminated and in the same boat as the other two non-playoff teams, Bennett was moved to center, but wasn't given Gaudreau as a linemate, ostensibly because of the organizational belief in Monahan. Regardless, Hartley stated that offseason that Bennett's two-way game at center had impressed him.
It was the next year that anyonr started questioning Bennett's so-called readiness, and that was almost exclusively because of Troy Brouwer and Glen Gulutzan. But even then, by the time the playoffs had rolled around, Versteeg-Bennett-Chiasson were an effective, if unlucky 200-foot line, being tasked with some legitimate matchups (i.e. Kesler). Ironically, Bennett's disasterous sophomore year was still superior to Dylan Larkin's sophomore year. Larkin was also moved to center in the absence of Pavel Datsyuk. But that also meant a larger role was given to him.
Bennett was ready for an expanded roll as a 3rd year player.
Which he never got because ten games into centering Curtis Lazar et al, he was moved almost permanently to the wing. Until the Lucic-Bennett-Dube line reminded everyone that Sam Bennett is an awesome center. Which the Flames abandoned again because the leash on him was non-existent. In terms of icetime, I'd wager Sam Bennett's top twenty single game icetimes have all come as a Florida Panther, and I'm not sure he's even played twenty games yet.
Meanwhile Dylan Larkin actually was handled the opposite of Bennett, and saw his career trajectory go upwards.
Bennett had no leash here to be a relied-upon centreman, despite the obvious talent level that got him drafted 4th overall.
Okay, first to the AHL point - I agree with you that Kylington wasn't ready for the NHL, at least for a couple of years after his draft. However once he WAS ready, he got limited minutes in a bottom-of-lineup role - which is very much like Bennett. While the Flames never had the defenseman equivalent of Troy Brouwer to staple him to, they certainly stapled him to the pressbox.
He had no leash here to be a relied-upon defenseman, despite the obvious talent level AND the significant strides he made in the AHL.
Much like the Flames arbitrarily favoured Monahan and later Lindholm over Bennett, they have favourted Valimaki over Kylington.
Kylington played one game in the top 4 yesterday, but it's not clear that he's been given a leash to play to his potential, although I have profoundly more faith in Darryl Sutter than I do the previous three Flames coaches. Regardless, one bad shift could see him stapled to his version of Troy Brouwer(/Curtis Lazar/Mark Jankowski/Tobias Reider/Brett Ritchie) again - the pressbox.
One game. We don't even know if he'll be alongside Tanev next game yet.
This is a good post with strong evidence. I think that we agree that Bennett was mishandled. You're right his position in the lineup was poorly managed. That said, how this should have been solved will always be left to speculation. I think that he should have been given 1st line minutes in the AHL until it was clear he could handle it and take the spot full time in the NHL, but it is useless arguing over this now, since it is in the past.
My main point in the Kylington is not being mismanaged. Giving him lots of time in the AHL and sheltering his time in the NHL was the right thing to do, and I am glad that Sutter is moving forward with patience. So far we've seen that Kylington has flashy skill and great skating, but he still has to prove that he is a dependable player both Offensively and Defensively. Before this preseason/one game he has not proven anything expect for that patience was the right choice.
After 6 years of floundering around in the Flames organization, Treliving finally hires a coach that may be able to tap into the potential of Sam Bennett.......and he ####ing trades him shortly thereafter.
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