Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

They'll have no problem as long as they're willing to ice a bad defenceman. The question is who is going to take Hanifin's place in the top 4. There are no plausible candidates in the system right now, which means they would have to use assets to acquire someone… which pretty much takes away the whole point of trading Hanifin for assets in the first place.

When Fleury left the team, there was nothing left but Young Guns. Seven years in a row out of the playoffs, terrible hockey, and the team almost went broke. When Iginla and Bouwmeester left, there was a full-on rebuild. It's ridiculous to say that their departures were ‘barely noticed’.

Hanifin has 2 years left. He will be getting a big raise. Do you wanna be paying Hanifin $8 million in 2 years? Because that's what he will likely get as a UFA. I rather recoup assets now and fill his spot with Valimaki or another cheaper option.

Flames have been terrible at seeing the writing on the wall and I think if they hold onto Hanifin it will be another one of those times.

He's a good defensive defenceman who adds not much offensively. Don't think Flames are in a position to just let players play out their contracts especially a player like Hanifin.

Life will go on without Hanifin the same way it will go on without Gaudreau and Tkachuk if they don't sign here.

Too many people over rate what a player's role is in a success of a team. Sutter IMO has the biggest role and he isn't even on the ice.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

Hanifin has 2 years left. He will be getting a big raise. Do you wanna be paying Hanifin $8 million in 2 years? Because that's what he will likely get as a UFA. I rather recoup assets now and fill his spot with Valimaki or another cheaper option.

Let me get this straight: Hanifin is such a mediocre defenceman that the team wouldn't miss a beat without him, any random player could take his spot. But he's also such an elite player that he's going to get $8 million a year on the open market.

Pick a lane, man. Pick a lane.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

We don't really know the discussions between Gaudreau and Treliving prior to the season but if JG gave Treliving every indication he'd extend at a reasonable price, I'm not sure JG refusing to sign is 100% on Brad.

If Johnny would extend at a reasonable price, he’d be signed by now. Now maybe the goalposts of what is reasonable has changed. But I have always felt that if Johnny extended, it would have to be at a price that would be the highest amount he would get as a UFA. And for 8 years. His great start would have likely increased that number.


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[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

^^ still though for a guy who is getting as much PP time as he’s getting you’d want to see more than 3 assists out of him. Hanifin always leaves me wanting more even though I like many elements of what he brings. I’ve always felt like his skating ability is wasted as he doesn’t have the offensive flare and instinct to turn it into consistent offence.

Yep, and I think it's fair to say Hanifin is a really good defenceman especially on the defensive end but I also think there was a reason Carolina didn't see him in their future. I just don't think he has that extra gear needed to be a great defenceman.

If he's not going to be here in 2 years why not get a big return on him?

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

So if Kylington replaces Hanifin, who replaces Kylington? Or are you just going to make him play 40 minutes a night?

Left shot defensemen are everywhere. They’re way more common than the more coveted right shot defensemen. Just check the UFA market next summer and you’ll see about a zillion names available. Treliving may actually need to go bargain bin hunting because the cap crunch is inevitable and Mangiapane/Kylington have only made things muddier with their stellar performances so far.

If Mangiapane and Kylington end up leading the team in scoring from their respective positions, then it may force Treliving to make multiple tough decisions.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

Hanifin has 2 years left. He will be getting a big raise. Do you wanna be paying Hanifin $8 million in 2 years? Because that's what he will likely get as a UFA. I rather recoup assets now and fill his spot with Valimaki or another cheaper option.

Flames have been terrible at seeing the writing on the wall and I think if they hold onto Hanifin it will be another one of those times.

He's a good defensive defenceman who adds not much offensively. Don't think Flames are in a position to just let players play out their contracts especially a player like Hanifin.

Life will go on without Hanifin the same way it will go on without Gaudreau and Tkachuk if they don't sign here.

Too many people over rate what a player's role is in a success of a team. Sutter IMO has the biggest role and he isn't even on the ice.

IMO you need to keep your best players unless the cost is ridiculous. I don't want to be set up like the Oilers or Leafs but I think Johnny will sign for less than the $10 mil some suggesting he will get. Tkachuk maybe not

IMO teams hurt themselves being married to their 2nd tier guys. Toronto lost a good player in Hyman but they still look good. Tampa has lost Miller, Coleman, Gourde, Goodrow, Bishop to name a few but when you have Hedman, Kucherov, Point, Stamkos, Vasilevskiy and Mcdonagh life goes one without the other quality players. These type of players can be replaced through your farm system. Hedman or Kucherov just can't be replaced easily through your farm system.

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Let me get this straight: Hanifin is such a mediocre defenceman that the team wouldn't miss a beat without him, any random player could take his spot. But he's also such an elite player that he's going to get $8 million a year on the open market.

Pick a lane, man. Pick a lane.

No one has called him mediocre. Teams win games without good players all the time.

Our defence was supposed to be terrible without Giordano. We look much better without him. Hanifin is a good defenceman I have said that all along and it's why I would wanna trade him. Get assets now that will help build for the future while still remaining competitive.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

Carolina just added a defenceman for free who I think provides much more than Hanifin does.

so that's one and it was a very unique situation

who can the Flames just add right now?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

If Johnny would extend at a reasonable price, he’d be signed by now. Now maybe the goalposts of what is reasonable has changed. But I have always felt that if Johnny extended, it would have to be at a price that would be the highest amount he would get as a UFA. And for 8 years. His great start would have likely increased that number.


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So you're saying he wouldn't extend at a reasonable price, yet Treliving should have traded him. For what and to whom?

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by dino7c

so that's one and it was a very unique situation

who can the Flames just add right now?

Valimaki or Mackey.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dino7c

A big factor is you could trade Tkachuk after this season

Also, Lucic contract is winding down..I still think he might retire rather than play next season for 1M

Since Lucic also gets a $3M bonus payment next year, I doubt he could accept the bonus and then retire without paying it back. And even if he did, that $3M payment would be included in the cap for that year.


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[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

Valimaki or Mackey.

Jake bean was another example of cheap acquisition cost and a good cap hit. Trade doesn’t have to happen until the off season. There will be ok replacements

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So you're saying he wouldn't extend at a reasonable price, yet Treliving should have traded him. For what and to whom?

I didn’t say he should have been traded. I can’t say that without knowing what the market was. If the market was poor, the option to extend at a price many would consider unreasonable was there. But there are too many unknown variables to really know what the best option was at the time.

But the option left today does not seem optimal.


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[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

Valimaki or Mackey.

So downgrade the D of the 2nd best GAA team in the league

seems like a bad idea

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by dino7c

So downgrade the D of the 2nd best GAA team in the league

seems like a bad idea

That's the mindset that has the Flames being mediocre for 30 years.

[Monahammer]

It would make way more sense to trade Valimaki while he still has any value. Guy is going nowhere and has a bad attitude about it. Turn him into a good forward prospect.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

That's the mindset that has the Flames being mediocre for 30 years.

As opposed to good teams, who break things as soon as they start working?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I didn’t say he should have been traded. I can’t say that without knowing what the market was. If the market was poor, the option to extend at a price many would consider unreasonable was there. But there are too many unknown variables to really know what the best option was at the time.

But the option left today does not seem optimal.


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So you wanted him signed at an unreasonable deal.

It strikes me that though you say you don't know what the variables were, there's no situation in which you'd say Treliving made a good choice. Either he trades into a market that may be soft, signs for an unreasonable price back then (actually he can't legally extend until this year anyway) or waits on the soft promises of Johnny.

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

As opposed to good teams, who break things as soon as they start working?

No, they look at their team and are honest about it. Hanifin won't be here in 2 years and is on a good contract and lots of teams in win now mode would give up a lot for him especially if there is term left. Seems like a perfect opportunity to cash in and get some assets and build for the future while remaining competitive.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by dino7c

So downgrade the D of the 2nd best GAA team in the league

seems like a bad idea

Darryl's system is the reason why the team's GAA sits where it sits. Check his history, 2003-2006 Flames, tops in the league in GAA and 2012-2018 Kings, tops in the league in GAA. Darryl's system is essentially plug and play. His system doesn't require expensive defensemen like Hanifin to function. Actually, upon Darryl's hiring last season, Gio was subsequently moved to the top shutdown pair with Tanev which resulted in a Hanifin demotion.

To me, it's pretty simple, Hanifin does not provide this team enough value for what he's paid. He's the team's highest paid defenseman and is expected to provide this team offense from the back end which he does not. He also doesn't drive the play for any pairing he's a part of and he needs to with that kind of contract. Treliving may not have a choice but to move him this coming summer with the cap crunch because he might have the easiest big contract to move. He has no trade protection, but still has some draft pedigree.