[PGT] Stars 2 Flames 1

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Lol, no.

If you think the roster just isn't very good (I completely disagree), then surely you must think the GM has done a poor job putting the team together?

I do think that. I think he's done a very poor job of assembling a roster. He initially had some bad legacy contracts, but he's successively swung and missed on some as well. The incredible amount of picks he's moved to win now is going to prolong the pain. The biggest problem with the roster last year was the lack of finishers in the top 6 and so he went out and traded a bunch of draft picks and signed a guy to a bunch of money that did nothing to address the problems up front. It is the Calgary Flames Cycle of Fandom.

Harkens back to the days of Corey Sarich making 3.6 million to play on the bottom pairing while Iginla struggled every single night to find a guy to play with. I used to love Sarich but I can freely admit having him patrolling the bottom pairing made the team worse than spending his equivalent dollars on legitimate forwards than scrounging the bargain basement for guys to whiff on set ups from Iginla in the slot.

The Flames top forwards are not paid so much that it should limit the ability of the team to acquire high paid talent to surround them with. That's the case in Edmonton or in Chicago or in LA. The whole point of having a guy like Monahan being paid 6.5 is so that he can have a pair of 6.5 m wingers to play with. Instead, he's got one 6.5 m winger and another guy that should probably only be playing 12 minutes a night to be max effective.

I feel like GG doesn't get enough credit for how significant his Xs and Os were last year in securing wins. The team couldn't score goals, had awful goaltending and yet somehow had Special teams in the top half of the league at the end of the year, the PP especially in the top 10.

I have no doubt that if given the opportunity GG can turn the team around to respectability, but it will take buy-in from the whole roster that they can't win any other way. They are going to have to play extremely tight, disciplined hockey if they want to have success. In my opinion, squeaking into the playoffs and getting swept in 4 straight is not success. Last year was not a successful year. This year doesn't look like it will be either, but ultimately I don't think that's coaching, it's because the roster is so awful the team has to sign guys like Versteeg, Jagr, Bartkowski and Glass just to keep themselves halfway respectable.

That's on the GM.

[TheScorpion]

I get your point and don't entirely disagree with it, Flash, but I think calling the roster "awful" is a little disingenuous and hyperbolic. It's still early and the team's around .500 while shooting at a Coyotes level.

[Enoch Root]

Calling the roster awful is ridiculous. Suggesting that scoring goals was going to be a challenge is fair.

But then we have to look a little deeper and ask what talent do we have here and how should we utilize it?

The Flames are stacked on D with puck-moving defensemen. But they aren't playing a transition game or jumping into the rush. THat is not a talent problem, it's a strategies problem.

The Flames are small up front and are terrible along the boards in puck battles. And yet I see them dumping it in all night and trying to forecheck. Of course they are going to look lousy doing that, they aren't built to do it.

There is more than plenty of talent on this roster - definitely in the upper tier of the NHL - but they simply aren't playing in a way, or utilizing their players, to succeed.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The Hamonic trade isn't looking very good right now. It's not that he's terrible but I expect a lot more for a guy that fetched a 1st and two 2nd round picks. That's a massive ransom for a guy that looks like a 4th defensman on a good day.

It would've been a surefire worthy move for a team that was a 4th defenceman away from pushing for a cup but the flames look to be another few meaningful moves away from getting there. Can they get the puzzle put together in this 3 year 'window'? I hope they don't remain stubborn on sticking with this exact core if the results don't begin to show.

A couple lateral moves for better chemistry and trading from the glut of D to bringing more scoring up front may need to happen. The flames have good pieces but these particular ones aren't clicking together as well as they hypothetically should. Sometimes you have to find the right combination that compliments the rest.

If Tavares looks to become available, that's the sort of difference making piece I would look to bring in.

Monahan is a good player but does he make a difference all over the ice? Not really. There's a couple places on the ice where he can be pretty effective but he seems to be confined to those abilities, and doesn't appear expanding on his skillset as time goes on.

[Flash Walken]

What is the evidence that the Flames are a top tier team for skill in the NHL?

Who are they being compared to in this instance?

What is the measure for skill?

By my count there are 5 players on the roster who have scored 50 or more points in the last 5 years, 2 of them are defenders and one of them is 45 years old. By my count there are 2 players on the roster who have scored 30 goals in the last 5 years and I think only 3 on the entire roster who have ever done it? Last year the flames had ZERO 30 goal scorers, and only 2 guys broke 20. The team that swept them had 2 x 30 goal scorers

In Hartley's last season only 5 guys scored more than 40 points, one of them was Joe Freakin' Colborne and another was Giordano.

Certainly, Tkachuk is an addition to the skill factor from that club, but where is this vaunted skill I keep hearing about? There should be some evidence, right? Some sort of residue left behind from this 'top tier' skill?

[Enoch Root]

The Flames were tied for 16th last year in goals for - exactly middle of the pack. To me, that's the starting point.

Let's break down points by tier:

(point total / league avg / Flames)

60 / 1.4 / 1
55 / 2.2 / 2
50 / 3.4 / 4
45 / 4.5 / 5
40 / 5.5 / 6
35 / 7.0 / 9
30 / 8.2 / 9
25 /10.0 / 12
20 /11.7 / 14

More than average in every category, save the top 2. In other words, very deep, but needing one more top scorer (which we all agree on)

Since last year, we have added:

Jagr, Jankowski, Hamonic, and Stone to replace:
Chiasson, Bouma, Wideman, and Engelland.

Pretty big upgrade. And if we can get Bennett going, that should be another top 6 player.

It isn't the most offensive team in the league, but it is really deep and the upgrades over last year, along with being young and (presumably) developing, suggest a team that should be in the top half of the league at the very least.

[JurassicTunga12]

Maybe the entire team is just filled with slow starters.

[heep223]

Missed the game. After reading this thread I was expecting a highlight package dominated by the Stars. That wasn’t the case at all - from the highlights on dtmts.com it looked like the flames had more high quality chances but just couldn’t finish. Backlund alone had 3-4 grade A scoring chances. Brodie missed a wide open net on a pass from Brouwer.

Also Smith looked like he played really well but was completely out of position on the game winner.

Obviously highlights are just that, highlights, but given the reaction in here I was surprised that the flames looked like the better team on the package.

[Henry Fool]

It's a lineup that should make a decent playoff run this year. I'm not convinced yet that there's anything fundamentally wrong with the team. Good feeling about this season despite another sluggish start.