[PGT] Flames lose third straight. Canucks 2, Flames 1 (SO)

[IntenseFan]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Ownership isn't about to 2 guys not to coach this team. GG will get at least this year to install his system. Quit beating the dead horse.

They'll be hesitant to fire a coach again so soon, I'll agree with you. But if the Flames go 0-for-October, something will have to be done. Someone will answer. Coach might be easier than core players, BT, Burke or someone else.

I wouldn't exactly feel comfortable if I'm GG, although it isn't panic time for him yet.

[meh]

Originally Posted by kn

Tarasenko 3GP 3G-2A-5PTS +1
Monahan 3GP 1G-0A-1PTS -3
Gaudreau 3GP 0G-1A-1PTS -4

We look outmatched against the Oilers and Canucks. I can't wait until we play contenders. <sigh> It's only three games, right?

These kids obviously are not motivated. They settled for way less than they are worth.
If these kids signed for 6+M, I wonder what McDavid is going to ask for?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Is that the standard for analysis now? If you don't make your terrible teammates better you shouldn't be on the line?

Put him on a line where works well with his linemates. Or does chemistry count for nothing?

[Flamenfame]

Can't be blaming it all on coaches we were bad last year as well. Just not the right balance of players on the team . After Gaudreau and Mono and Bennett a whole lot of meh up front. Tkachuk will be good this you can see but we do not have the right group up front to win many games this season.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Dion

Has he done anything to make Gaudreau and Monahan better?

Just because he might be playing well doesn't automaticly make him a fit for the top line.

No one would say that he's an automatic fit, but it's hard to judge so long as Gaudreau and Monahan aren't playing to their level.

You're right, it was 100% a desperation move to bring him over at the last second. I doubt anyone would disagree. He's not a defensive forward, he's exactly what he was brought in for: a guy who might fill a hole and provide complimentary skills on an offensive line.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Did you just call Gaudreau and Monahan terrible?

He's saying Versteeg is not responsible for the poor play of Mony and Johnny. At the same time ingnoring the possibility that the chemistry is not there.

[combustiblefuel]

Need more.

[IntenseFan]

Originally Posted by Flamenfame

Can't be blaming it all on coaches we were bad last year as well. Just not the right balance of players on the team . After Gaudreau and Mono and Bennett a whole lot of meh up front. Tkachuck will be good this you can see but you we do not have the right group up front to win many games this season.

No, can't blame it all on coaching. Except the front office last year appeared to blame it all on coaches and goaltending. Moves made in both areas. So they become convenient whipping boys (GG & Elliot, not Johnson yet since he was good tonight).

For what it's worth I do mostly agree with you though.

[Redliner]

Losing sucks - especially to the oilers and canucks - but I'm more concerned about the way the team is losing. They have completely moved away from the tooth & nail dogfight mentality that they had in 2014/15 during the "always earned, never given" days and just seem to be drifting right now. The team looks sluggish and disorganized, and if there is a system that they're trying to play, it's either a really bad system or they aren't doing it very well.

I wasn't sold on the Gulutzan hiring to start with, but I decided to put my faith in Treliving and give it a chance. So far what I'm seeing is a weak coach who has no influence over his team, doesn't know his players, and is completely clueless in high pressure situations. There was a lot of speculation that when Hartley was fired it was because of comments made during end-of-season interviews with players who insinuated that he had lost the room and that the team needed more of a "player's coach". For what it's worth, I think that's a disastrous way to go. The Flames are still a young, developing team and they need a coach with a disciplined and structured approach. Bringing in a wishy-washy "player's coach" with no defined system and the personality of a potted geranium is tantamount to handing the inmates the keys to the asylum.

I really, really want to be wrong about this but I'm still not sold on Gulutzan and I think that the Flames are going to struggle until the team develops some cohesion. Really need someone like Gio to step in at this point and provide some direction and leadership.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

No one would say that he's an automatic fit, but it's hard to judge so long as Gaudreau and Monahan aren't playing to their level.

You're right, it was 100% a desperation move to bring him over at the last second. I doubt anyone would disagree. He's not a defensive forward, he's exactly what he was brought in for: a guy who might fill a hole and provide complimentary skills on an offensive line.

I saw Gaudreau creating a lot of chances tonight as an individual and was unfortunate not get a goal. History has shown that Mony and Johnny work well together but what I haven't seen yet is any chemistry between them and Versteeg. Further to that I would feel a lot more positive if Versteeg had the skills to be a #1 winger.

[AC]

The big positive is I thought our defensive game was so much better tonight.

The only goal against during the game was when the top line, who are struggling already, got caught out late in the 2nd night of a back-to-back. Otherwise I thought we had a good defensive game, which was our glaring issue in games 1-2. Also Jokipakka had another great game, and Kulak was definitely good enough to not put Wideman back in.

Baby steps!

[meh]

Who the heck is Gulutzan?
Bring back "Sweater Man" Ftorik,
What actually happened to him anyway?

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I wonder what the interactions between Gelinas and Gulutzan are like.

It doesn't seem like Gulutzan knows about the individuals on this team. He seems unfamiliar with many of the the players at the top and bottom of the lineup. I'm sure Gelinas has a good grasp on all of this already, so I wonder if he has been asked for help.

Don't know about his new assistants but you'd think Gulutzan would have researched this team pretty thoroughly over the summer, watching film, and getting to know the strengths and weaknesses of each player. Yet, there have been three poorly played games out of the gate, and very little momentum to try and build from. The next two at home are very winnable; as posted noted earlier in the thread, the schedule gets much tougher after that. I'm guessing things will get very uncomfortable for him if there aren't signs of life soon.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Are you kidding me? How about Versteeg's turnover just inside their blueline to set up the sequence where they tied it?

.

That was a dumb pass by Gaudreau. Versteeg is skating into coverage and Gaudreau throws it at him, what's Versteeg suppose to do?

They had a 3 on 2 and Gaudreau should be spreading the zone, instead he shrinks it and forces Versteeg into a tough play.

Just another example of Gaudreau not having his head in the game right now. Too many dumb giveaways and high risk plays. His hands aren't there yet. He left them at the World Cup.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Dion

I saw Gaudreau creating a lot of chances tonight as an individual and was unfortunate not get a goal. History has shown that Mony and Johnny work well together but what I haven't seen yet is any chemistry between them and Versteeg.

I think the big guys are the driving force on that line no matter who else is there and the hope is that Versteeg has quick enough wits to keep up. It's not a completely unreasonable hope but it's uncertain of course.

It would be nice to have someone with guaranteed chemistry on the first line but there's no such individual on the roster. If Versteeg is a failure, and it's too early to tell, they'll keep cycling people in and out until someone looks good enough.

I do wonder if this situation should have been foreseen months ago by Treliving.

[Wiggum_PI]

I can't believe the Flames couldn't even muster a single goal against the lowly Canucks.

Really hope they turn things around fast, but I fear it will turn out like the 2009/2010 season when the Flames hired Brent Sutter.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Dion

Has he done anything to make Gaudreau and Monahan better?

Just because he might be playing well doesn't automaticly make him a fit for the top line.

He's a complimentary player earning less than a million dollars a year, what do you expect? You expect a complimentary player to drive the offense for the top line?

That line is driven by Gaudreau, if he's not on, that line is toast.

Hudler didn't drive that line last year and he is also simply a complimentary player.

I don't know what you are expecting from a PTO. He's the best option they have for that line. The closest thing they have to a Hudler. Maybe Treliving can trade Wideman for Ovechkin?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by 868904

He's a complimentary player earning less than a million dollars a year, what do you expect? You expect a complimentary player to drive the offense for the top line?

That line is driven by Gaudreau, if he's not on, that line is toast.

Hudler didn't drive that line last year and he is also simply a complimentary player.

I don't know what you are expecting from a PTO. He's the best option they have for that line. The closest thing they have to a Hudler. Maybe Treliving can trade Wideman for Ovechkin?

I'm not convinced he's the best option so far. I'd like to see Brouwer moved to the top line for awhile and see how that works out.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by 868904

He's a complimentary player earning less than a million dollars a year, what do you expect? You expect a complimentary player to drive the offense for the top line?

That line is driven by Gaudreau, if he's not on, that line is toast.

Hudler didn't drive that line last year and he is also simply a complimentary player.

I don't know what you are expecting from a PTO. He's the best option they have for that line. The closest thing they have to a Hudler. Maybe Treliving can trade Wideman for Ovechkin?

He wasn't even a Flames PTO . He was an oiler PTO how well do you expect him to play?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

I think the big guys are the driving force on that line no matter who else is there and the hope is that Versteeg has quick enough wits to keep up. It's not a completely unreasonable hope but it's uncertain of course.

It would be nice to have someone with guaranteed chemistry on the first line but there's no such individual on the roster. If Versteeg is a failure, and it's too early to tell, they'll keep cycling people in and out until someone looks good enough.

I do wonder if this situation should have been foreseen months ago by Treliving.

I wonder if the disappointing efforts of Klimchuk, Porier and more noteably Shinkaruk forced BT into that trade.

Maybe your right, more time should be given to Versteeg. I just wonder how long can we wait cosidering the 3 losses to start the season.