[PGT] Flames vs. Oilers. Flames lose 4-2.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by polak

Or Kiprusoff?

Exactly. We had him and what did that get us. I know everyone still loves the guy and he was the Flames best goalie but last year was an indication of how good this team could be....bad.

[Vedder]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Ference's response was 'excellent'?

That's actually kind of sad to hear a coach say. Lost a lot of respect for Eakins for saying that.

Lost all respect for Ference too. For a veteran guy like that to bloody a non-fighter was despicable. The lack of response from both the refs and the Flames was pretty shameful too.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by browna

MacDonald played less worse in the game he got put on waivers after, then that last night.

A stat I had to look up. Prior to Thursday, Stempniak played 575 NHL reg season games and had 3 fights. He's since been forced into 2 fights in back to back games, and the Flames players and coaches are apparently fine with this, as no formal retribution was enacted on the assaulting player, or an equivalent player on the other roster after either of those incidents. Back to back games, at home, no less. Sickening for a team that, if nothing else, should be showing some pride.

So who exactly was supposed to respond? Who on the Flames roster is a guy that is going to go out of his way to get in fight? The roster isn't built for that type of game. You have the option of McGrattan and SOB. Maybe Bouma, but he's not a fighter that we have seen. Don't mistake him for Prust. The Flames don't have that type of team and have to send messages by taking advantage of the power plays when the other team decides to play dirty. Sadly, they don't have that type of team either.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...263/story.html

More evidence that the d-bag Ference "response" should have been acknowledged by Stempniak's teammates.

It's the culture of the team Feaster built. Butlersoft to the core.

I would not be sad if we gave Moulson $7mil a year. He is the type of guy we need on this team.

[bucksmasher]

(IMO) Whatever. It was a pretty good game for the most part. The Flames played a few good periods. This type of loss has to be expected with unproven goalies and inexperienced and depleted defense. The team still competed and there was effort shown for the most part. Too bad a weak 3rd goal was let in but the first two were semi-excusable. I try and leave the edmonton emotion out of it. There may be some excitement in riding the highs and lows but I'm still optimistic about the long term future and I'm not about to feel spite against my team for doing what I hoped they would do for years. Blow it up, suck for a while, build a team that can be competitive for more than just a flash in the pan amount of time. This process will include losses to the olilers, jets, blue jackets, sabres etc and I'm OK with it.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by Fire in the disco

I disagree, just look at ALL of our goalies GAA and save %. We have seen a lot of bad goals, and bad goaltending. This is to be expected given the lack of NHL experience our tenders have combined, Joey Mac has the experience but clearly is not a viable future tender for this team. So they will role with what they have for this year, and see which goalie eventually gets hot.

Our D clearly hasn't been great either, but the goaltending has been awful at best. Also we are missing Gio who IMO is a 1B on almost any team in the league. Wideman is easily top 4 as well, and Brodie keeps getting better, then their is Russel who plays way above his pay grade and slots in the top 5 on almost any team. I don't think we can blame the D on this one

I think too many of us Flames fans see it this way too. Gio is probably second pairing on most good teams, contenders, not teams like the jackets or the canes. Gio is by far our best defenseman and he isn't good enough to be a top pairing guy on a good team. Our D is pretty bad. Wideman is more of a power play guy, his defense is too....bad. Brodie is getting better but is still nothing speical. Russlel is a small puck mover too, probably a decent option as a 6-7 defensman on teams who need a puck mover.

Our D is just bad. We could say we're better than the oilers D but that's a stretch after last night. We could say we're better than the sabres D but that isn't saying much either.

I'd argue this more, but Feaster just called and asked if I wanted to try out for their top pairing defensman this week.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by bucksmasher

This process will include losses to the olilers, jets, blue jackets, sabres etc and I'm OK with it.

I can see the other teams but the Jets aren't on the same level of suck as Bjs, Oilers and Sabres.

[Huntingwhale]

What happened to Stempniak was disgusting and after watching the Flames religiously for the last 29 years, soft Flames hockey is the most disgusting thing in the world. I can't help but feel that Hartley is preaching discipline to his team which means no physical pushback when crap like that happens. Disgusting.

However TBH I take great solace in the fact that Burke will not allow this to continue. I guarantee he was just as disgusted with what happened as we all are. Knowing Burke and how he turned both Toronto and Anaheim into big bruising teams, I know the Flames will follow suit one day. He will eventually make his mark on this team, and it will be a good thing.

Patience people. Nights like last night suck balls, but one day the Flames will be the big nasty team who punishes anyone who steps out of line. But we're not that team today. Not even close. And for it to happen from an even softer team in EDM makes me sick.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by browna

A stat I had to look up. Prior to Thursday, Stempniak played 575 NHL reg season games and had 3 fights. He's since been forced into 2 fights in back to back games, and the Flames players and coaches are apparently fine with this, as no formal retribution was enacted on the assaulting player, or an equivalent player on the other roster after either of those incidents. Back to back games, at home, no less. Sickening for a team that, if nothing else, should be showing some pride.

This is a point that cannot be understated. How Hartley stands on the bench and watches one of his few veteran skill players (and leaders) get forced into a fight after a clean hit and beaten up badly, and then does nothing at all about it is simply astounding to me.

Losing sucks, losing to the Oilers sucks exponentially more, but this is the first year of a rebuild and frankly I'm not expecting anything more then 29th or 30th in the league, I don't think many fans are. But no matter how lacking in skill the team might be there is simply no reason to be lacking in heart and definitely no reason to let some gutless puke beat down one of your vets after he delivered a good, clean body check.

I've never liked Harley and can't really forgive him for this. Despite some posters on here raving about how great of a coach he was in the first 10 games of the year, reality is he has always been a poor to average coach, always. All you need to do is watch his in game management; glaring, team deflating issues like the one in question aside, he has problems matching lines even at home, won't keep together line combinations that have proven success because of a momentary dip in production not to mention the fact that he clearly has "his guys" who can do no wrong and get rewarded with unwarranted levels of ice time because of it.

As someone above asked, what would have happened if DS was still coaching the team yesterday? I don't know for sure, but I think we all know that Andrew Ference would be looking a lot worse this morning then Lee Stempniak. Sutter, like most good coaches, would never let something like that happen to one of his veteran leaders (or, anyone of his team for that matter), especially if he was coaching a team that has exactly 0% chance of making the playoffs this season. Players and coaches around the league will have watched the highlights from our game last night and will come away with one thing: the Flames don't and won't stand up for themselves, push them around and take liberties whenever possible, it works.

The whole thing sickens me, just because we're going to be bad this year (and probably the next few) doesn't me we have a have a bad coach as well. Please fire Hartley and get someone behind the bench that sticks up for his team (among many other things) and someone that can start teaching these young players the right way to play this game.

[EYE_Overstand]

One thing I understand is that we have 2 unproven goalies and we are in year 1 of the rebuild... So the flames being soft is fine as long as we start moving to be bigger and tougher today.

When the only people that an fight are Big Ern (4mins/ game)... Jackman (healthy scratch most night) and Bouma .... All 4th line... Not to mention SOB who gets like 6 mins a night if he even plays ....

It's sad. Where is the time when flames would fill on brawl with the likes on ANA.... I understand it's a different league/ era but if we are in year one of the rebuild and planning on having lots of losing nights then Lets have some #####ing push back

[bucksmasher]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

I can see the other teams but the Jets aren't on the same level of suck as Bjs, Oilers and Sabres.

true, true, this is true

[flames_fan_down_under]

Weird loss. Flames didnt play all that bad. Two of those goals were so ridiculous I couldn't believe it to be honest.

Oh well. They certainly can be good when they're playing their up temp game.

[Matty81]

I don't dislike hartley's system or coaching methods as much as Kipperfan but there's no arguing that the worst part of last night was the flames not sticking up for their teammates.

Especially with a bunch of 18-22 year olds going to be playing for us over the next few years, this is the kind of stuff that either encourages them to throw hits and play with no fear or play timid.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Vedder

Lost all respect for Ference too. For a veteran guy like that to bloody a non-fighter was despicable. The lack of response from both the refs and the Flames was pretty shameful too.

Bah, I'm sure we all loved when Ference pulled the same stunt 10 years ago on Stillman. I'm sure 90% of us would have gone on and on about his character back then.

No issue with what Ference did, and kudos to Stempniack for standing up for himself. Problem is the Flames didn't do anything about it. Someone should have gooned Ference later in the game, and given they didn't, Ference better get pounded by someone in the next meeting, this supposedly tight team needs to check their commitment to each other at this point.

[saillias]

The media, the team, and the coaches don't seem to care about the Ference thing in the slightest? This is the most upset I've been with this team since they pissed away their playoff spot and traded Phaneuf. I can't believe they let that slide.

[Fire in the disco]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I think too many of us Flames fans see it this way too. Gio is probably second pairing on most good teams, contenders, not teams like the jackets or the canes. Gio is by far our best defenseman and he isn't good enough to be a top pairing guy on a good team. Our D is pretty bad. Wideman is more of a power play guy, his defense is too....bad. Brodie is getting better but is still nothing speical. Russlel is a small puck mover too, probably a decent option as a 6-7 defensman on teams who need a puck mover.

Our D is just bad. We could say we're better than the oilers D but that's a stretch after last night. We could say we're better than the sabres D but that isn't saying much either.

I'd argue this more, but Feaster just called and asked if I wanted to try out for their top pairing defensman this week.

I think you are under valuing Gio quite a bit, but I digress. I can't argue that the flames D is great because they aren't. I still think our goaltending is our weakest position at the moment however

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Ference's response was 'excellent'?

That's actually kind of sad to hear a coach say. Lost a lot of respect for Eakins for saying that.

It's beyond stupid for Eakins to link Gazdic's fight and Ference's cowardly instigation with his team's victory. Both happened early in the game, and sparked virtually nothing for the Oilers who continued to be dominated by the Flames for another full period and a bit.

[Trailer Fire]

Watched the game last night, and I had plenty to say but allowed myself to sleep on it.

First and foremost I'm very mad at Ference for what he did and even more mad at the Flames for a lack of response.

Props to Gratts for his tilt and the respect show afterwards. Staged or not that was a good bout.

Berra got handcuffed on the first one, and realistically should have had it, but the other two were ridiculous flukes.

CBC really annoys me with how much love they give the Oilers. We all know that panel doesn't have a gag reflex when it comes to that "youthful and skilled" team up north, but they don't have to cradle the balls while they are at it. The Oilers did not dominate the third. They got lucky bounces is all. Ridiculous.

Sven has been very noticeable of late, and mostly it's been good. I've seen a lot of hustle in the forecheck, and often I see 47 covering for a pinching D-man, or playing 3rd man back. Sadly he seems to be trying to force a lot of passes, especially when he has a good opportunity for a shot. I hope we don't have another Tanguay on our hands.

Monahan hasn't been as noticeable. Sure he had the goal last night, but other than that he hasn't won all that many draws and seems to be in the wrong place at the right time. But a lot of that should come with more time in the bigs. No biggy, yet.

Colborne seems to be using his body and size more than everyone else said he did. Hopefully he turns up the offensive side of his game, but his defensive game has been good so far.

I'm continually impressed with the play of Russell. Great pick up there.

[Mister Yamoto]

Originally Posted by saillias

The media, the team, and the coaches don't seem to care about the Ference thing in the slightest? This is the most upset I've been with this team since they pissed away their playoff spot and traded Phaneuf. I can't believe they let that slide.

I can believe it. And not only do I believe it, I'm getting used to it.

This team is a punchline. The fact that there are still some people defending Jay Feasters' work here is laughable.

Brian Burke makes Feaster the biggest lame duck GM since ..........................well Jay Feaster, in his last season of completely wrecking the Lightning. All part of the process I guess.

[Matty81]

Hopefully they can re up Russell for a reasonable rate because I agree, he has been good. If not, unfortunately a team in Calgary's position pretty much has to deal him in another 35-40 games at the deadline.