Rerun, you realize at the moment you are the only one going to any length (and extremely great lengths at that) to defend Harper right? I mean most of the normal CPC supporters have pretty much said nothing at all. Only you, the most extreme of cheerleaders are still trying to make it seem like Harper is some kind of victim. That should be pretty telling unto itself.
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So what you're saying Rerun is Harper is a terrible leader with no control over anyone around him, even though he hand picked every one around him? That he somehow knows nothing happening in his own office, a sign of either incompetence or ignorance?
That's what we've all been saying too. Well, to most of us thats the best case scenario for Harper, but thanks for agreeing.
I don't like this argument that if you as a Leader hire a wrong person you in turn are a terrible leader. In the case you have made a bad judgement a good leader corrects the problem and owns up to the issue. The arguments just reeks of the False Choice Falacy.
The real problem with Harpers leadership is the story from Harper keeps changing and he won't answer direct questions about on of his former employees. That is why he is being a poor leader regardless of his involvement. Good leaders can hire bad people but they fix problems and are transparent about it.
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Rerun is acting as the defence attorney. When all is said and done if Harper is going to be impeached this is the route that must be taken.
Quiet CPC'ers are keeping their mouths shut eating to see. This means they support Harper but know it doesn't look good. They will wait and see.
Balance of Probabilites. If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, quack quack quack it's a duck.
Harper haters: Yay!!! Woooo!!! Yippie!!!!
Rerun is taking the defence attorney position (which is ironic based as evidenced by my previous post) but a perfectly fine position.
So long as the story continues to come out this discourse we should be having.
While I disagree with Rerun, his questions should be answered. However, he should be (and I single him out solely because he's the only one with his stance) systematically answer the questioned asked with facts and not with more questions (actually this goes for all sides).
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The thing I worry about as a conservative party member is Duffy said "AT LEAST 2 cheques." Does that mean there is a third cheque and if so is it a bribe cheque to keep silent on this or any other scandals.
Last edited by robbie111; 10-28-2013 at 09:39 PM.
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I don't like this argument that if you as a Leader hire a wrong person you in turn are a terrible leader. In the case you have made a bad judgement a good leader corrects the problem and owns up to the issue. The arguments just reeks of the False Choice Falacy.
The real problem with Harpers leadership is the story from Harper keeps changing and he won't answer direct questions about on of his former employees. That is why he is being a poor leader regardless of his involvement. Good leaders can hire bad people but they fix problems and are transparent about it.
This is a little different though. When you hire people who are bad it doesn't mean you're bad, I'll agree to that. But when you have your staff running around violating the law, trying to sweep everything under the rug it is concerning. It looks like this wasn't a 'rogue operative' kind of scenario, but the culture in one of the most powerful offices in the country.
Of course that reflects badly. Harper appointed everyone in question, and at some point firing a staffer isn't going to cut it.
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Originally Posted by robbie111
The thing I worry about as a conservative party member is Duffy said "AT LEAST 2 cheques." Does that mean there is a third cheque and if so is it a bribe cheque to keep silent on this or any other scandals.
That is definitely interesting. He made a point to say 'at least' as well. It wasn't a slip of the tongue or anything. Part of the issue the Conservatives have here is that Duffy is a good showman. He knows exactly how to play to the media.
The CPC has confirmed that party funds were used to pay Duffy's legal expenses (i.e. the $13k cheque). I'm sure that will sit well with donors to the party.
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Later on Monday, the communications director for the Conservative Party told CBC News it had paid Duffy's legal fees.
"At the time these legal expenses were incurred and paid, Mike Duffy was a member of the Conservative caucus," Cory Hann wrote.
"The Conservative party sometimes assists members of caucus with legal expenses."
Duffy himself said the funds for his legal fees came from party donors to make an embarrassing political situation go away.
Muclair is sure acting like a potential leader. At least Trudeau would act like a Prime Minister before he ruins the country.
I am pretty sure that Stephen has proven that his brand of public policy is ineffective and counterproductive. At least Trudeau would have the good sense to positively promote Keystone to the people who are actually in a position to approve it (the democrats) rather than hammering away with Boehner and the flaming wreckage of the republican party.
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From the comments section of an article on the Senate Scandal......
The moral of the story?
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Stephen Harper entered politics by stabbing a supposed friend and mentor in the back and he has not looked back.
I believe a refresher course is in order for those who believe Harper is a stand up guy who always tells the truth.
Stephen Harper was caught on audio tape admitting he not only had full knowledge of an attempt to bribe a sitting MP for a vote he also condoned it. Harper swore up and down the voice on the tape was not his. He went further he accused Tom Zytaruk of lying and claimed he had altered the tape.
Stephen Harper proudly stood up in the HOC and boasted he had launched a lawsuit against the LPC for daring to question his honesty and integrity and said he fully intended to "Bankrupt" and then "Bury" them and he would ensure it was the sorriest thing they had ever done. Very strong words there.
When Harper's OWN voice expert confirmed the voice was indeed Harper's on the tape and the tape was neither edited or deleted Harper meekly dropped his lawsuit and was awarded nothing.
Harper had his own lawyer quit on him because as an office of the court he could not countenance perjury. Harper lied to Canadians, his fellow Parliamentarians, and his own lawyer.
The moral of the story?
Stephen Harper always swears he is telling the truth. He always swears everybody else is lying. He does it until such time the lies become untenable.
The parallel can be made to both incidents. Stephen Harper lies as easily as he breathes.
His own supporters are only starting to clue in to what is already common knowledge to most who have a knowledge of Harper's unethical character and his less than principled political career.
What does it mean that I don't care about this at all? Harper isn't going to have a majority next time, at minimum, and I just don't care. They've been discussing $90000 for WEEKS. Does no one see the irony in the entire house and senate circling the drain on this issue for an extended period of time?
400+ people, making substantial salary, either arguing about 90000 or trying to cover up the payment of 90000 ... for weeks. It's ridiculous.
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Mulcair asked Harper, for a second day in a row, about the second cheque that Senator Duffy said was given to him by Nigel Wright, Harper's former chief of staff, to help him pay his legal fees.
Quote:
The prime minister then turned to Mulcair and asked the NDP leader about "his party" repaying his legal expenses to the tune of $100,000 in a libel case.
"How many members of the NDP are aware that this party leader not only claims expenses for court cases he loses, but also expects his political party to actually pay for him the damages imposed by a court of law?" Harper asked.
Quote:
Conservatives who emerged from caucus on Wednesday said it was the Liberals who were stalling the motion to suspend the three senators without pay, but Liberal deputy leader Ralph Goodale said it was the fault of the Conservatives.
"That is 100 per cent the responsibility of the Conservative leader in the Senate and the people in the Prime Minister's Office that are pulling their strings," Goodale said.
Meanwhile in Justin's world.
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Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau was in Alberta, and not in question period on Wednesday, where he gave a speech to the Calgary Petroleum Club.
The CPC ship is sinking, so he is trying to get the support of the Oil companies in hopes that they will help to ensure that he is the alternative, and not Mulcair!
What does it mean that I don't care about this at all? Harper isn't going to have a majority next time, at minimum, and I just don't care. They've been discussing $90000 for WEEKS. Does no one see the irony in the entire house and senate circling the drain on this issue for an extended period of time?
400+ people, making substantial salary, either arguing about 90000 or trying to cover up the payment of 90000 ... for weeks. It's ridiculous.
This is far, far more than $90,000.
This is about a party that campaigned on accountability, the party that you elect if you want responsible, transparent government.... doing nothing but trying to cover up their cover ups. That $90,000 is just the tip of the iceberg... senators abusing their position to spend taxpayers money on themselves, contradictions within the party about who said and did what when, the overall contempt the party has had for those that question them. It all smells rotten.
Look, the Adscam scandal was a tiny drop in the bucket as well. It was 10 or maybe 20x that 90,000 figure, but still a drop in the bucket compared to overall government expenditures. And it brought down a government, not because of the amount that was gone, but because of the stain it put on the people involved.
I still think Harper has a good chance next election. The Canadian electorate has a short memory and the Conservatives have until 2015 to brush this under the rug. I think this story will be long gone by the time the next election rolls around.
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I still think Harper has a good chance next election. The Canadian electorate has a short memory and the Conservatives have until 2015 to brush this under the rug. I think this story will be long gone by the time the next election rolls around.
He isn't running against ex-flames Dion or Iggy this time. Harper is done.
