[Trade] Flames acquire Kris Russel for a 2014 5th round pick and sign him (1yr, $1.5mil)

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by FAN

I don't know who you are... but...


This is a discussion board. I'm suggesting that it is a waste of an asset to trade a 5th round pick for a player who was on waivers just days ago just to save money. Never said I know better. But I'm a fan who has spent quite a bit of money over the years supporting the Flames and I feel I have a right to voice my opinion on a message/discussion board dedicated to talking about the Flames rather than blindly supporting the decisions of Flames management.

I think it's also funny that people who disagree with something the Flames have done have no problem voicing their opinion, which is fine, it's a discussion board as you say, but as soon as someone disagrees with you in the same manor, you get all up in arms about it.

My only point, or opinion, is that people who frame their 'discussion' in absolutes aren't really having a 'discussion', they are just telling you how it really is, which in my opinion creates arguments, not discussion.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

How is everyone so concerned over a ~125th overall draft pick?

The likelyhood of grabbing a player who will ever play 200 NHL games is about 5%. Kris Russell already has 360 GP.

Bored @ work...

Kris Russell already has more GP than 93% of the guys drafted in the 5th round, between years 1994-2003. Russell was drafted in 2005.

He's only 26 years, and Feaster only gave him a 1 year contract.

Nothing wrong with this trade, even if we're in a rebuild.

[tempz]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

Go to hockeydb.com
Click draft history
Click 2010 and all the way back for ten years or so
Scroll to the fifth round of each year
compare career number of NHL games for each selection
Realize why a fifth round pick is worth trading for a guy even if he was on waivers two days ago.

Just looking at what the Flames have done in the fifth round since 2000:

2000 5 141 Wade Davis Canada D
2000 5 155 Travis Moen Canada F
2001 5 145 James Hakewill USA D
2001 5 164 Yuri Trubachev Russia C
2002 5 141 Jiri Cetkovsky Czech RW
2002 5 142 Emanuel Peter Swiss C
2002 5 146 Victor Bobrov Russia F
2002 5 159 Kristofer Persson Sweden RW
2003 5 143 Greg Moore USA RW
2004 4 121 Kris Hogg Canada LW
2005 5 128 Kevin Lalande Canada G
2005 5 158 Matt Keetley Canada G
2006 5 149 Juuso Puustinen Finland RW
2007 5 143 Mickey Renaud Canada C (RIP)
2009 5 141 Spencer Bennett Canada LW
2010 5 133 Michael Ferland Canada LW
2012 5 124 Ryan Culkin Canada D
2013 5 135 Eric Roy Canada D

Travis Moen is the only player who had an NHL career on this list. And he never played a game for us.

Outside of that Greg Moore played 10 games (0 points, -2) over 2 seasons for the Rangers and Blue Jackets. Matt Keetley played 9 minutes of a game for us in 2007-2008 and faced 2 shots. No one else played a single NHL minute.

However that being said I do think our 5th round picks since 2010 have been of a higher quality so I have mixed feelings. Meh.

[868904]

Originally Posted by tempz

2009 5 141 Spencer Bennett Canada LW

haha.... i remember the mini uproar on this board by a select few posters when Spencer Bennett was not signed by the Flames.

Too bad about Mickey Renaud, I think that guy would have been centering our 3rd line centre spot by now.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by 868904

haha.... i remember the mini uproar on this board by a select few posters when Spencer Bennett was not signed by the Flames.

Too bad about Mickey Renaud, I think that guy would have been centering our 3rd line centre spot by now.

Easily. He was captain material too.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But I am not making said assumption. I noted that the only thing Feaster has said is that the team does not want to assume an arbitration case. He has never said specifically why. You are the one who is assuming that that reason is entirely in an effort to save some money on an arbitration award, but I would counter that there is likely a good deal more to it than that.

You are wrong. If you follow the discussion you would know that I wasn't the one who brought up the saving money part. I've made it pretty clear that I didn't understand why Feaster would be afraid of going to arbitration given the team's situation.

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Because the NHL doesn't allow you too trade players for cash like this.

The NBA does and 2nd round picks are sold all the time.

A 5th round pick is not worth anywhere near 2 million in real cash dollars.

So what are you disagreeing with? Are you talking about the NBA or the NHL? You said that "Every team in the league would sell a 5th round pick for 2 million $." I said that's ridiculous. Back in the day when teams were allowed to bury contracts in the minors, you think the Rangers or the Leafs would trade a 5th round pick to "save" money? Cap space yes. Money? No.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Zevo

I think it's also funny that people who disagree with something the Flames have done have no problem voicing their opinion, which is fine, it's a discussion board as you say, but as soon as someone disagrees with you in the same manor, you get all up in arms about it.

My only point, or opinion, is that people who frame their 'discussion' in absolutes aren't really having a 'discussion', they are just telling you how it really is, which in my opinion creates arguments, not discussion.

Are you not framing your "discussion" in absolutes? I think you are confused. I wasn't up in arms about things at all.

Making a seemingly absolute statement doesn't mean that one isn't up for discussion or debate. You can have passionate and heated debates without "arguing". An even if there is an "argument" going on, does it upset you that much? As long as it's not personal (i.e. comply with board rules) and you're still debating or arguing the points, what's the matter?

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by FAN

Are you not framing your "discussion" in absolutes? I think you are confused. I wasn't up in arms about things at all.

Making a seemingly absolute statement doesn't mean that one isn't up for discussion or debate. You can have passionate and heated debates without "arguing". An even if there is an "argument" going on, does it upset you that much? As long as it's not personal (i.e. comply with board rules) and you're still debating or arguing the points, what's the matter?

Nope, I'm not. It's a fifth round draft pick and I would have been fine with Feaster taking him off waivers too if he thought that was prudent or was what worked for him at the time. It's not really a big deal and I think we may as well agree to disagree.

It doesn't upset me at all. It is annoying however when for 5 pages people have laid out the POSSIBLE reason why Feaster and Co may have done what they did and you reply with "It was a waste of a pick" everytime. That's what I mean by absolutes. If you are not interested in possibly understanding the other side, just state after the 2nd page or so 'agree to disagree' and the discussion can evolve. That's just my opinion though.

I understand that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it obviously, and this will be the last I say on it, I just get tired of reading the same arguement over and over for pages.

And yes, I realize that's my problem an no I'm not new here.(before someone asks again)

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Zevo

It is annoying however when for 5 pages people have laid out the POSSIBLE reason why Feaster and Co may have done what they did and you reply with "It was a waste of a pick" everytime. That's what I mean by absolutes. If you are not interested in possibly understanding the other side, just state after the 2nd page or so 'agree to disagree' and the discussion can evolve. That's just my opinion though.

You are mistaken. Go back and read. I said it was a waste of a pick if the reason for trading a pick instead of picking the player up on waivers is to avoid arbitration and save money. Yes I'm under the premise that the team isn't cash strapped, will have a lower payroll this season, and shouldn't be trading away assets to "save money." I have consistently said that I don't understand why Feaster is so afraid Russell going to arbitration considering the season Russell just had and the fact that team isn't likely to be up against the cap.

And again, avoiding picking up a player who might go to arbitration is Feaster's official explanation for trading a 5th round pick instead. Everything else is speculation. I'm guilty of reading too much into things all the time and the one time I take Feaster's word for it posters like you want me to indulge in speculation instead? Please...

[starseed]

You know that player we got for a 5th? In setting the NHL record for blocked shots in a game and padding his wide NHL lead, he now makes a save every 7 minutes he is on the ice. Compare that to Ramo's ~1 in 2.5 minutes.

Goalie supplement!

[dissentowner]

Reading the comments in this thread is hilarious.

[nemanja2306]

Originally Posted by Hatter

I like the trade and signing.

I was fortunate to watch Russell throughout his junior career with the Tigers. Obviously he will never be a top pairing guy or replicate his gaudy junior stats (32 goals in his last junior season!) in the NHL, but he has other qualities that are desirable for the Flames.

Foremost, he is a gamer. Kris plays hard every night, partially because he has to work harder to overcome his stature, but also because he has a great attitude.

Secondly, he thinks the game very well on both ends of the ice, especially in the offensive zone. His troubles in his own end mostly stem from physical mismatches, not from poor positioning, a poor brain, or poor skating.

This is a no risk signing and I'm ecstatic. I think he has a ton more to show at this level.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Wonder what this extension costs

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Hatter

I like the trade and signing.

I was fortunate to watch Russell throughout his junior career with the Tigers. Obviously he will never be a top pairing guy or replicate his gaudy junior stats (32 goals in his last junior season!) in the NHL, but he has other qualities that are desirable for the Flames.

Foremost, he is a gamer. Kris plays hard every night, partially because he has to work harder to overcome his stature, but also because he has a great attitude.

Secondly, he thinks the game very well on both ends of the ice, especially in the offensive zone. His troubles in his own end mostly stem from physical mismatches, not from poor positioning, a poor brain, or poor skating.

This is a no risk signing and I'm ecstatic. I think he has a ton more to show at this level.

You sir, should apply for a job with the Flames scouting team. Excellent evaluation. Bang on.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

How is everyone so concerned over a ~125th overall draft pick?

The likelyhood of grabbing a player who will ever play 200 NHL games is about 5%. Kris Russell already has 360 GP.

Ended up being the 124th overall pick, Jaedon Descheneau from Edmonton. He's a 5'9'', offensive RWer for Kootenay. He was draft eligible in 2013 but was not selected.

Always like following player for pick trades, years after completion. Will be interesting to look back on this guy in a few years.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Reading the comments in this thread is hilarious.

Hoooo boy, some real doozies (myself included )

This one is my personal favourite...

Sense.... This does not make any. Why not just pick him up on waivers? Hope feaster addresses this or something.

MacT > feaster so far

So much crow being eaten in this thread, and I'm more then happy to indulge! I was going to post some hilarious hindsight quotes, but really everyone should just read from page 1 onward and laugh, this thread is full of them. Russell is awesome. Just awesome. One of my favourite players on this team and he epitomizes what this team's identity is all about.

[IgiTang]

Russell is a beast, that's for sure. Never stops. And now with holding an NHL record, hes gonna get paid.

If he continues this play next year, I would be OK with the Flames throwing another 1.5 at him to bring him to $4M for a couple more seasons.

Hes been incredible.

[tvp2003]

Probably mentioned already but his name isn't even spelled correctly in the OP.

Now he's wearing a letter.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I thought we'd be screwed without Gio. I love Brodie, but Russell has definitely stepped up to the plate and has been our #1 thus far.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I thought we'd be screwed without Gio. I love Brodie, but Russell has definitely stepped up to the plate and has been our #1 thus far.

I dunno bout that. Brodie is still the beast he was and what I like is that he isn't changing his game now that Gio is down.

Playing with Engalland it almost looks like Brodie has more offensive freedom playing with a true stay at home guy.

My point is it's nice to see that Brodie's success isn't just due inpart to Gio.

That said, I hope Russell can keep it up and I've seen no reason why he wouldn't unless he blocks the wrong shot and goes down himself ala Jones...

Speaking of which... New thread on his status? Is he as essential as we thought with how the boys rallied after? Maybe just a general injury thread?