[Trade] Flames acquire Kris Russel for a 2014 5th round pick and sign him (1yr, $1.5mil)

[Muta]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

You don't lose waiver position if you claim a player. Waiver position is purely based on standings

Even under this new CBA?

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It still doesn't make any sense to me. There is no way that an arbitrator would give Russel more than what he signed for, and so what if he did? Walking away form a #6 defenseman picked up off waivers isn't a big deal and going on waivers in the first place wouldn't put Russel in a great positon to bargain.

I tend to think what others were stating. Russell was likely plan B after something else didn't transpire and the timing of the waivers didn't work out with the other timeline.

I think you don't understand if an arbitrator awarded Russel any salary up to 3.5 million, the Flames cannot walk away they have to accept it.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

I think you don't understand if an arbitrator awarded Russel any salary up to 3.5 million, the Flames cannot walk away they have to accept it.

nm did not see the not in cannot.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

I think you don't understand if an arbitrator awarded Russel any salary up to 3.5 million, the Flames cannot walk away they have to accept it.

Oh, OK I see. I still don't see that as very likely to happen, but I guess you never know.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Muta

Even under this new CBA?

Yup just checked section 13.19 of the CBA.

[Brannigans Law]

[FlamesAddiction]

Just to add, I can't see a defenseman who has these following qulaifications be handed a large arbitration award:

• 8th defenseman on this team for ice-time per game,
• missed the playoffs (was he injured?),
• passed through waivers,
• then traded for 5th rounder.

Such a player is lucky to even be offered an NHL contract.

[OzSome]

I like this trade. Only gave up a 5th rounder then signed him for a year with $1.5M. If he doesn't pan out after a season here he's free to go.

[Sandman]

I was thinking before the "free agent frenzy" began that our defence was just too darn big, and that we needed to get smaller and easier to play against. Just then, I read the news about Russell. Later, I saw we signed Butler and Billins. Great job Jay!

[ricardodw]

I guess there is no room for Fistric now.

[Heavy Jack]

Wideman - Brodie
Giordano - O'Brien
Butler - Russel
Cundari - Smith
Breen - Ramage

lots of depth, I'm sure all of those players will see some amount of games this year with the Flames. Defense by committee.

[Hatter]

I like the trade and signing.

I was fortunate to watch Russell throughout his junior career with the Tigers. Obviously he will never be a top pairing guy or replicate his gaudy junior stats (32 goals in his last junior season!) in the NHL, but he has other qualities that are desirable for the Flames.

Foremost, he is a gamer. Kris plays hard every night, partially because he has to work harder to overcome his stature, but also because he has a great attitude.

Secondly, he thinks the game very well on both ends of the ice, especially in the offensive zone. His troubles in his own end mostly stem from physical mismatches, not from poor positioning, a poor brain, or poor skating.

This is a no risk signing and I'm ecstatic. I think he has a ton more to show at this level.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Icon

Disagree with that... they play an entirely different style.

Nobody can call Butler a "puck-moving" dman. He's a positional defensive dman. (aka why he's the whipping boy a lot, doesn't hit much, doesn't score, doesn't set up goals, he's just... there).

well...

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I don't think Butler gets enough credit for his outlet passing. He's very good at it. He can also skate it out. To me he's somewhat similar to what Leopold gave us.

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

You are too focused on points. Points are not a great stat to base a defenseman's play off of. Butler along with Bouwmeester both excel at transitioning from defense to offense by moving the puck up the ice via skating or passing. .

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Well despite the claims that Butler cannot pass or handle the puck, I feel this pairing is one of the best puck moving pairings I've seen on the Flames in my 15+ years of following the team.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Just to add, I can't see a defenseman who has these following qulaifications be handed a large arbitration award:

• 8th defenseman on this team for ice-time per game,
• missed the playoffs (was he injured?),
• passed through waivers,
• then traded for 5th rounder.

Such a player is lucky to even be offered an NHL contract.

Yeah, there's no way he was going to be awarded much more than what he got.

However, maybe the 5th round pick was worth it to start his tenure off on a good foot with the Flames. Otherwise it's practically:

"Welcome to the Calgary Flames Russell, now here's a list of reasons you're an absolute #### defenseman."


Also saves Feaster and co some time and work on trying to get a case together for Russell, could be just that they're lazy.

[FAN]

I pretty much missed today's events. Can anyone tell me why Feaster didn't just pick Russell up on waivers? It is my understanding that Russell was on waivers like 3 days ago. Is this unnecessary waste of a draft pick or am I missing something here?

Edit: okay it was to avoid inheriting an arbitration case. Still not understanding it. Can anyone explain it to me?

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Just to add, I can't see a defenseman who has these following qulaifications be handed a large arbitration award:

• 8th defenseman on this team for ice-time per game,
• missed the playoffs (was he injured?),
• passed through waivers,
• then traded for 5th rounder.

Such a player is lucky to even be offered an NHL contract.

- 3 of those players played 15 games or less with the Blues, meaning he was 5th on the Blues in ice-time overall
- He was a #5 defenseman that was pushed to #7 when 2 top 4 defensemen were acquired at the trade deadline (Bouw and Leo)
- Lot's of players pass through waivers, doesn't change contract value, not even sure if this is admissible in an arbitration hearing.
- unlikely to be admissible

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by FAN

I pretty much missed today's events. Can anyone tell me why Feaster didn't just pick Russell up on waivers? It is my understanding that Russell was on waivers like 3 days ago. Is this unnecessary waste of a draft pick or am I missing something here?

Edit: okay it was to avoid inheriting an arbitration case. Still not understanding it. Can anyone explain it to me?

If he claimed him of waivers, it could go to arbitration which the Flames would not be able to walk away from, no matter what the player was awarded. With a trade and sign, arbitration was not an option.

[sureLoss]

BTW I found this cool article

http://www.anguscertified.com/a-behi...ation-process/

Basically it summarizes the experience of a guy who does a mock NHL salary arbitration against Brian Burke... really cool. Was done in June of this year so I believe they follow the current CBA.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Zevo

If he claimed him of waivers, it could go to arbitration which the Flames would not be able to walk away from, no matter what the player was awarded. With a trade and sign, arbitration was not an option.

I don't understand the logic behind this. Since Russell agreed to a sign and trade, wouldn't he agree to a $1.5M contract or similar and avoid arbitration? I'm sure this has been discussed, how much can Russell realistically get from arbitration? A 5th round pick to avoid the risk of arbitration seems stupid given that the team likely will end up with plenty of unused cap room.

[toquester]

Originally Posted by Hatter

I like the trade and signing.

I was fortunate to watch Russell throughout his junior career with the Tigers. Obviously he will never be a top pairing guy or replicate his gaudy junior stats (32 goals in his last junior season!) in the NHL, but he has other qualities that are desirable for the Flames.

Foremost, he is a gamer. Kris plays hard every night, partially because he has to work harder to overcome his stature, but also because he has a great attitude.

Secondly, he thinks the game very well on both ends of the ice, especially in the offensive zone. His troubles in his own end mostly stem from physical mismatches, not from poor positioning, a poor brain, or poor skating.

This is a no risk signing and I'm ecstatic. I think he has a ton more to show at this level.

I am excited about this pick up too. He is excited about coming home, he is on a cheap, short term contract so he will be motivated, and he is a much better player than he has been portrayed around here.

Here are quotes from scouts quoted by HF:

"Scout #1: If there’s a little guy that’s ever going to play, he’s the one. The nights he’s playing he can control a game, it goes at whatever speed he wants to play it. I see him blocking shots and coming back and doing a great job of taking on guys in front of the net that are twice his size and he does it along the boards, in the corners and he’ll fight too. If he was 25 pounds heavier you’d be fighting to get him and still I think he’s going to go pretty high.

Scout #2: He’s only 160 pounds but he plays like he’s 200 lbs. He thinks the game, he’s aggressive and he has great hockey sense. It’s tough to guess where he’s going to go in the draft because of his size but if he were 6’0 tall he’d be a definite first rounder. He certainly has the ability to be a good player and from the skill and heart standpoint he has all the attributes to be an NHL player but it’s tough to project where he’s going to fit in at the NHL level."

Granted, that was years ago but I would say being given a chance at a fresh start in a hometown Alberta player is well worth the risk. I really like Cundari but if this guy turns things around and plays the way he used to, he could be an upgrade.