[PGT] Flames beat Detroit 3-2.

[Enoch Root]

Another thing to consider here (for those of you that are having an aneurysm because the Flames pick might slide from 3-4 to 5-6):

The Flames are quite possibly going to be the worst team in the league next year. THey will have Stempniak, Cammalleri, Tanguay, Stajan, and possibly Giordano and Glencross as trade bait at the deadline in order to get multiple 1st/2nd round picks again.

The rebuild is NOT going to die if the Flames don't get MacKinnon.

[stanleycup1989]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So now your argument is that there was already a culture of losing, so they might as well keep it up?

Unbelievable.

Again, it has been asked several times already: what would you have them do? Are you actually suggesting that the players should try to lose? If they asked the players to lose, the NHL would discipline them (deservedly so) and the punishment would quite possibly be their first round pick.

That's what you got out of my post? Okay well carry on then.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Zevo

Comparing Calgarys situation to The Penguins is rediculous as finishing last and getting a Crosby isn't in the Flames cards no matter how badly we finish the season. Also we would have to be Oiler bad for multiple seasons to follow thte Penguins, again with no Crosby in the mix either. I remember how bad the penguins were, if people think the Flames are joke now, it's nothing compared to how bad Pittsburg was.

Well if people are saying that hoping for losses means that we are going to be the Oilers we would be that bad.

My point isn't that I am expecting Crosby and Malkin if drafting high it is that drafting high doesn't result in Oilers style losing.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by edslunch

What would you differently if you were the Flames? This question is actually for everyone here - If you think they're screwing up on a high draft pick what would you do differently? If you think they need to instill a winning attitude what would you do differently?

Like has been said last night was unfortunate. The Wings fumbled away two points. I don't think much can be done when a goaltender pretty well scores two goals on himself. The Oilers game as well not much could have been done seeing how poor the Oilers played. The frustration is more for just how poor the surrounding teams are managing to play compared to the Flames. When going 4-6 in your last 10 games moves you up three positions in the standings like you are a team on fire something is wrong. It's hard to accept that other more talented teams can be so bad while a decimated Flames roster full of AHL call-ups competes. This situations really sucks because it feels like the only way the Flames can get that elusive top 5 pick is to not even show up which means these more talented teams falling behind them in the standings are all quitters.

[bubbsy]

clearly cheering for this team only results in losses, not vice versa.

Go flames go, cheering to go undefeated for the rest of the season

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Like has been said last night was unfortunate. The Wings fumbled away two points. I don't think much can be done when a goaltender pretty well scores two goals on himself. The Oilers game as well not much could have been done seeing how poor the Oilers played. The frustration is more for just how poor the surrounding teams are managing to play compared to the Flames. When going 4-6 in your last 10 games moves you up three positions in the standings like you are a team on fire something is wrong. It's hard to accept that other more talented teams can be so bad while a decimated Flames roster full of AHL call-ups competes. This situations really sucks because it feels like the only way the Flames can get that elusive top 5 pick is to not even show up which means these more talented teams falling behind them in the standings are all quitters.

Hopefully the Hockey Gods recognize this and reward the Flames accordingly.

I believe that it is always right to take the high road and do things the right way. I think the Oilers deserve their misery and I fully expect it to continue.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by stanleycup1989

There has supposedly been a culture of losing in the room for years when wins would have actually helped the team make the playoffs. Are you saying there has been no problem with the culture in the room for years, and the culture of losing would only be starting now if the players were asked to lose 6 or 7 games to end this season?

Originally Posted by stanleycup1989

That's what you got out of my post? Okay well carry on then.

Well, what did you mean then?

The bolded pretty clearly suggests that you support them losing on purpose.

Again, what would you have them do?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Hopefully the Hockey Gods recognize this and reward the Flames accordingly.

I believe that it is always right to take the high road and do things the right way. I think the Oilers deserve their misery and I fully expect it to continue.

Well problem is that the Hockey Gods have treated the Flames like a black sheep. It seems that ever since they won the cup in 1989 that this franchise has operated under a dark cloud with the exception of a couple of years. Maybe things turn around but I'm not expecting any good fortune from outside sources.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Well problem is that the Hockey Gods have treated the Flames like a black sheep. It seems that ever since they won the cup in 1989 that this franchise has operated under a dark cloud with the exception of a couple of years. Maybe things turn around but I'm not expecting any good fortune from outside sources.

I'm not either.

But I would fully expect the bad luck to continue - or get worse - if the team started losing on purpose .

All we can do is the right thing and hopefully our fate will improve.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Like has been said last night was unfortunate. The Wings fumbled away two points. I don't think much can be done when a goaltender pretty well scores two goals on himself. The Oilers game as well not much could have been done seeing how poor the Oilers played. The frustration is more for just how poor the surrounding teams are managing to play compared to the Flames. When going 4-6 in your last 10 games moves you up three positions in the standings like you are a team on fire something is wrong. It's hard to accept that other more talented teams can be so bad while a decimated Flames roster full of AHL call-ups competes. This situations really sucks because it feels like the only way the Flames can get that elusive top 5 pick is to not even show up which means these more talented teams falling behind them in the standings are all quitters.

Ok. I agree then. My only contention is that Hartley needs to get these kids and vets fired up for each game and they should feel very disappointed when they lose.


My point gets to this: What does it say about a teams chances of winning significant games when a veteran is having a laugh on the bench after a teammate misses a good chance while the team is getting embarrassed in their own building by an AHL squad? It says they don't care and they're not being held accountable. That is NOT easy to remove from the room

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I've said it many times, but people who want to lose deserve nothing else. Also, I didn't say losing a couple extra games would turn us into the Oilers. I said wanting to lose a couple extra games is turning you into an Oilers fan wannabe.

You guys have locked yourself into the truly foolish notion that the only path to success is to finish a season with an abysmally bad place in the standings. There are a lot of words for such thinking, none of them flattering. And anyone with even the slightest clue of how winning teams are built would realize that the difference isn't in whether you draft third or sixth. It is in how you construct your roster, top to bottom. And I have no idea how that fact is so easily lost around here from people who have watched the debacle that has been the Oilers.


Also, you want to know the lesson Begin's goals offer? That hard work and effort is often rewarded. The nature of the goals were certainly fluky, but neither happens if Begin isn't busting his ass to get up the ice and put Howard into a panic.

This post should be stickied. Do I want a good pick? Of course, but drafting top 3 is a good start but you need a solid team around those picks as well or else you're just the Oilers.

[868904]

Wings and Howard really crapped the bed last nite. Can't really blame the Flames for this one, other than maybe dressing Kipper, but then Macdonald has been the better goalie this year.

Flames were pretty much dominated and Howard gave the game away. I know Kipper gave one back, but at that point, it didn't matter.

Flames are just cursed. Can't win when it matters and can't lose when it matters.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

For those of you who are angered or annoyed with the Flames because they won, what would you have them do?

They had Carson, Hanowski, Horak, Reinhart, Begin, Jackman, Baertschi and Butler in the lineup

They were oushot 38-17 or something to that effect. Would you have them lie down on the ice and just give the other team the win? Should they put Cervenka in net?

Wtf do you expect them to do?

Just cause you asked...

Put Begin in goal, put Baertschi at center, and Jackman on defense. Does that work?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Just cause you asked...

Put Begin in goal, put Baertschi at center, and Jackman on defense. Does that work?

In hindsight maybe it was a mistake to trade Comeau. Hartley would have surely had him in a prominent role and that would have at least shut down one scoring line.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by edslunch

What would you differently if you were the Flames? This question is actually for everyone here - If you think they're screwing up on a high draft pick what would you do differently? If you think they need to instill a winning attitude what would you do differently?

I don't think the flames can do anything differently. My bet is the flames would have another loss or 2 if Tanguay, Stajan and Glencross were all healthy during this stretch. Having Cervenka play top 6 would not hurt also for losses.

Other bottom teams ,other than Florida, seem to have solid veterans in the top 6 that are secured a job next season.They look like they are mailing it in and trying not to get hurt before golf season, which lends to them to keep on losing.

Our roster is full of rookies and they need to give 100% every night to have a fighting chance of making the team next year. I can't blame them for that.

I don't buy into the winning attitude at the end of the season though. Next year the flames will have a bottom 5 team and if they can't handle a couple of losses this year, then what happens next year when they loose a huge amount of games?

[sa226]

Is it just me or has this short season seemed longer than all of the 82 game seasons?

[edslunch]

I haven't heard anyone say that they would actively try to lose if they controlled the Flames. So the debate seems to between those unhappy that a high pick is slipping away and those that see a silver lining. Since no one would actually do anything different it's a pretty useless argument to have.

Now if some would like to see the Flames take specific steps to lose please state that directly and propose what you would do.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I haven't heard anyone say that they would actively try to lose if they controlled the Flames. So the debate seems to between those unhappy that a high pick is slipping away and those that see a silver lining. Since no one would actually do anything different it's a pretty useless argument to have.

I don't want to drag on this argument but can you elaborate on this silver lining? It's been mentioned here and on talk radio that winning these games has no influence on next season or player developement. There really isn't much of a silver lining outside of at least knowing the players on the team have some pride.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

In hindsight maybe it was a mistake to trade Comeau. Hartley would have surely had him in a prominent role and that would have at least shut down one scoring line.

Ha, so trading a 5th rounder (i.e. Comeau) to move up 4 spots into the top 3.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't want to drag on this argument but can you elaborate on this silver lining? It's been mentioned here and on talk radio that winning these games has no influence on next season or player developement. There really isn't much of a silver lining outside of at least knowing the players on the team have some pride.

The silver lining some see is "at least they're trying hard and not developing a losing attitude". I'm not saying that's a good or bad opinion, just contrasting the two arguments. To me it's all moot - of course the higher the pick the better but I don't expect the team to actively tank. What will be will be.