Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

The UCP have realized that they thrive best in the midst of conflict.

Distract distract distract!

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

but that should not be contorted to argue that teachers or anyone else should be paid less.

Who here has done that?

Trying to hit your target of 15 strawmen early this week?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

Are we now going to ship tylenol to Asia?

I’ll be shocked if the UCP doesn’t decide to bury all of the Tylenol like toxic waste in the name of stopping the spread of autism.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by indes

EDIT: Actually I don't agree that you can make the blanket statement that teachers should make more than all O&G workers. Do they deserve more than the guy who's working 24/4 in rainbow lake, living in a camp with shared bathrooms, terrible food and working all day in -40? More than the welder who saved up $100,000 for a welding rig and works in a fab tent for the rest of his life? I'm not sure, you can ask the teachers if they would swap jobs I guess.

This is probably true of any industry, no? Just seems odd to point the finger at O&G and instead of saying teachers should make more, O&G workers should make less lol. Anyways I agree with sticking together. I work in O&G and haven't spoken to a single person here who isn't in support of the teachers, and teachers' in general. The major I work at is also supporting people who need help with childcare (letting people work from home, extra days off, do what they can to accommodate, etc.) I guess it's just a little off putting to see all these people including myself championing the teachers only to get thrown under the bus with misinformation.

My original post was satire lol. I also work in O&G and my wife is a teacher. All of my colleagues I speak to are 100% behind the teachers as well.

It ticks me off that this government is always willing to move heaven and earth for O&G but it's fighting tooth and nail for healthcare and education.

Welfare for the billion dollar corporations but #### all for the public sector. And her base eats it up day and night.

[indes]

Originally Posted by Looch City

My original post was satire lol. I also work in O&G and my wife is a teacher. All of my colleagues I speak to are 100% behind the teachers as well.

It ticks me off that this government is always willing to move heaven and earth for O&G but it's fighting tooth and nail for healthcare and education.

Welfare for the billion dollar corporations but #### all for the public sector. And her base eats it up day and night.

Lol well here I am all worked up over nothing.

Agree with everything in this post.

[Geraldsh]

$70,000 would be adequate if the teacher could walk in, teach the subject, and walk out. They should earn an additional $20,000 for dispute resolution skills, another $20,000 for leadership skills, another $20,000 for time management/supervision skills, etc.,etc.,etc

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by Geraldsh

$70,000 would be adequate if the teacher could walk in, teach the subject, and walk out. They should earn an additional $20,000 for dispute resolution skills, another $20,000 for leadership skills, another $20,000 for time management/supervision skills, etc.,etc.,etc

Exactly. My wife would be fine with a lower salary if the province then went ahead and offered OT pay. Then she'd be making double.

Unpaid OT is the backbone of the education system.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

The salaries Gullfoss posted aren’t that great. IMO. It also depends on where you live. I think the poverty line wage for a family of 4 in Calgary is like $60k now (I think 2024 was like $58k). Like, no, those salaries are okay, but let’s not pretend they’re swimming in money here. The benefits and specifically the pension are great, however. Just my opinion. I don’t really want or require teachers personally to be just barely above the poverty line.

I also think this is actually largely about salaries and think it’s weird people tip-toe around it. That’s the main issue, it isn’t enough, the gov will have to do better. Paying parents daycare money that could otherwise go to teachers is stupid.

Gullfoss wants an answer but nobody here is really knowledgeable enough about the job to give one, honestly. Unless you’re a teacher in which case I think it’s fair to be like ya- it isn’t enough.

I can tell you with a high degree of certainty that the main issues keeping the teachers from halting a strike go far beyond salary. I'm close to many educators from different circles, and I can tell you that even though salaries remain a concern, it is not a bridge too far to gap in the current offer, and is likely number 3 on the list of main issues.

1. AB is the only province without classroom caps. Let that sink in. Kids are literally learning in hallways, gyms, libraries in many schools around the province. Learning is being compromised and it is totally unacceptable. Make an actual build commitment and impose a cap on sizes.

2. AB funds students to the tune of $3.50/student/day when the national average is $10/student/day. Let that sink in. This is restricting school boards abilities to hire more teachers and EAs to support crowded classrooms and handle complexities that continue to grow. It is not uncommon for a class of 35 students to have 15 -20 coded kids. Commit to hiring more than 1 new teacher per school and increase funding per student to something far less disgusting so every class can have access to aids and additional support for students in need.

3. AB Salaries still lag under this proposal and are at or below most new deals around the Western provinces. This while other provinces have much better classroom conditions with the above more adequately addressed. Build off the current increase and offer more upfront to make up for lost wages over the last decade.

We all need to demand more from our government whether it is health care, education or other services that are non-negotiable for maintaining a productive, educated and healthy population. If a month of pain here means our kids end up with a far better situation it will be worth it, but people need to make sure they don't let Smith and her government off the hook on this one. There is far too much at stake if conditions don't improve and more and more teachers and students start falling through the cracks of a depleted system.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Exactly. My wife would be fine with a lower salary if the province then went ahead and offered OT pay. Then she'd be making double.

Unpaid OT is the backbone of the education system.

It is a lot like the flight attendant conversation. Why is it they are unpaid before the plane takes off? They are at work, they are even doing work to ensure people are getting onto the plane safely and storing their bags properly but they weren't getting paid because the plane hadn't taken off? Absurd.

Then if the flight is delayed and they have to sit on the runway for hours with angry people yelling at them they are still not being paid.... gross. Could you imagine if your job asked you to show up for 4 hours and be ready to work but not pay you a penny for it?

Interesting that both Education and Flight attendants are women dominated jobs, eh?

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Median salary for 25 to 54 year old Albertans with a university degree who work full time is $75k.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1...pid=9810045301

$119k is a slappin salary. Anyone who doesn’t realize that - teachers, engineers, software developers, accountants, whoever - has a skewed perception of norms from being surrounded by other upper-middle-class professionals.

10 years ago teachers still capped out at >$100k per year salary. Did you feel at that time they were over 30% overpaid?

Because in addition to the valid points about properly funding public education re: in-class complexities and teachers having to go buy pencils for their students, remember that inflation has increased 33% since then.

The argument shouldn’t be teachers are overpaid or what’s the right number the argument needs to be wages (generally, but teachers included) increasing to keep pace with cost of living. If you’re not okay with moving the top bracket of teachers to $130k/yr it means you think they’ve been overpaid the last decade.

Sorry but no, those wages in Calgary aren’t really that great. I think it closer to average than you think and not adequate in keeping pace on cost of living.

I know we like to pretend that $100k is some glorious insane compensation on CP but that joke is about 10 yrs old now. Things have changed. Look at average rent, insurance, etc. everything has gone way up. People need to be paid more.

Also to the other comment about not having a max on salary I disagree. Until the union is willing to remove full job protections for very poor performers then teachers should be capped IMO. In non-union circles people have job risk and so the pay / salaries should also rightfully be commensurate with risk. No risk no ability for higher pay.

[InglewoodFan]

In other government labour news, AHS (and none of the other Alberta Health "pillars") out of scope non union folks (managers etc) have been told they have to take two mandatory unpaid days between now and March for cost cutting reasons. Seems like a heck of a way to save <1% on that labour cost at the expense of pissing everyone off.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

We all need to demand more from our government whether it is health care, education or other services that are non-negotiable for maintaining a productive, educated and healthy population. If a month of pain here means our kids end up with a far better situation it will be worth it, but people need to make sure they don't let Smith and her government off the hook on this one. There is far too much at stake if conditions don't improve and more and more teachers and students start falling through the cracks of a depleted system.

So who lives in Calgary-Bow and is ready to start the recall petition of Demetrios Nicolaides?

Recalling the Education Minister in this situation seems like a bang on message from the citizens to the government.

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by Wolven

So who lives in Calgary-Bow and is ready to start the recall petition of Demetrios Nicolaides?

Recalling the Education Minister in this situation seems like a bang on message from the citizens to the government.

I thought I heard something about a recall petition a while back but nothing lately so presuming it wasn't well organized/fizzled out.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Ashartus

I thought I heard something about a recall petition a while back but nothing lately so presuming it wasn't well organized/fizzled out.

Ya. This would be a great time to have AB Resistance step up and provide some organizing.... Otherwise it would need to become the next CP Jihad.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Exactly. My wife would be fine with a lower salary if the province then went ahead and offered OT pay. Then she'd be making double.

Unpaid OT is the backbone of the education system.

She should just assign less work to her students, then she herself would have less work. If teachers assign homework, they themselves should be expected to do homework. Serious/ not serious.

EDIT: I don’t know if homework is even still a thing.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

She should just assign less work to her students, then she herself would have less work. If teachers assign homework, they themselves should be expected to do homework. Serious/ not serious.

EDIT: I don’t know if homework is even still a thing.

I still remember "Pass the test to the student behind you and they'll grade it!"

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

She should just assign less work to her students, then she herself would have less work. If teachers assign homework, they themselves should be expected to do homework. Serious/ not serious.

EDIT: I don’t know if homework is even still a thing.

the UCP assigns more aimless work for children.

Students need more supports not more tests, according to Alberta Teachers’ Association (ATA) President Jason Schilling. On the first Friday of summer break, the Alberta government quietly released changes to provincial testing for the upcoming school year. In an email to school boards, government announced all schools will be required to administer provincially mandated numeracy and literacy tests to students in Grades 1 to 3 up to three times each school year. For the first time in Alberta, Kindergarten students will also now be subjected to standardized testing.

“When so many kids are falling through the cracks, we need to be giving them a safety net instead of measuring how fast they’re falling. Teachers don’t need a test to identify which students are struggling; they need smaller classes and more supports to get those kids additional help.”

—Jason Schilling, ATA President

New provincial assessments are also being added in Grades 4 and 5, meaning the students who struggle the most could be subjected to as many as 32 standardized tests by the time they leave elementary school. The previous total was 10.

Schilling says the time and energy required by teachers to administer tests takes away from time teachers could actually be helping kids.

“While the government claims to have listened to experts, it’s clear they did not hear what actual teachers had to say. Politicians and bureaucrats who have little knowledge and experience of the realities of Alberta’s classrooms might think this is a great idea, but teachers, who will end up spending hours administering tests and preparing students for them in September, January and June, do not.

All this is being foisted on the same teachers who are still trying to implement new curriculum across multiple grades and subject areas.”

https://teachers.ab.ca/news/massive-...ng-fails-grade

[MrButtons]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

the UCP assigns more aimless work for children.





https://teachers.ab.ca/news/massive-...ng-fails-grade

Huge fan of this " and that students receive the necessary intervention supports in the critical early years of their education." we'll do this .... by not funding the supports that are needed?

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Geraldsh

$70,000 would be adequate if the teacher could walk in, teach the subject, and walk out. They should earn an additional $20,000 for dispute resolution skills, another $20,000 for leadership skills, another $20,000 for time management/supervision skills, etc.,etc.,etc

They probably deserve another $20K for dealing with crappy parents.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Geraldsh

$70,000 would be adequate if the teacher could walk in, teach the subject, and walk out. They should earn an additional $20,000 for dispute resolution skills, another $20,000 for leadership skills, another $20,000 for time management/supervision skills, etc.,etc.,etc

Part of the reason they are underpaid is because plenty of people think that's what the job is.

I was a band teacher so I think I didn't work nearly as hard as someone who did a lot of paper grading, disciplining, etc. But even I had to put in a lot of extra hours, including extracurricular stuff (and no teacher gets away with not doing any).