[Rumour] Chris Johnston: Lindholm is interested in staying

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Lindholm is the best centre the team has had since Nieuwendyk.

If they trade him, they have to replace him. Anyone they replace him with is likely to be more expensive and not as good.

More importantly, Lindholm is currently the longest-tenured Flames forward after Backlund - collecting talent is part of the equation, but it doesn’t work if the guys in the room don’t live and die for each other.

That’s why it so rarely works out for the Flames, and why it’s important to draft and develop a core that’s roughly the same age and has 8-10 years to figure things out.

Because you don’t fall on a grenade for a mercenary, and this sport is full of grenades.

Assuming Lindholm gets to 9 million a year and is signed for another 9 years it is a very small list of centers that make more money and are even potentially worse. The only ones I could see are

Benn - 2 years left
Seguin - 4 years left
Backstrom - 2 years left

The only positives about finding a center that is both worse than Lindholm and makes more money than Lindholm is that their term is much shorter. But it is a pretty thin list to find that combo.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Assuming Lindholm gets to 9 million a year and is signed for another 9 years it is a very small list of centers that make more money and are even potentially worse. The only ones I could see are

Benn - 2 years left
Seguin - 4 years left
Backstrom - 2 years left

The only positives about finding a center that is both worse than Lindholm and makes more money than Lindholm is that their term is much shorter. But it is a pretty thin list to find that combo.

There are 26 centres with a cap hit of over $8M. Lindholm at $9M or under is at least as good or better than:

JT Miller
PL Dubois
Bo Horvat
Tomas Hertl
Niklas Backstrom
Mat Barzal
Mika Zibanejad
Ryan Johansen
Tyler Seguin
Logan Couture

Lindholm was the 33rd highest scoring C in the league in a year from Hell.

We’re about to start giving Huberdeau his $84M, we may as well give him the highest-quality centre available.

That’s Elias Lindholm and nobody else.

Giving Lindholm his money isn’t nearly as frightening as spending picks and prospect capital to acquire someone who isn’t as good and isn’t perceptibly cheaper.

[ComixZone]

Lindholm and Huberdeau didn’t even play together last year. I’m not penciling them together.

There’s also zero reason why the Flames should be rushing in and paying Lindholm right now, and the only reason why Lindholm would be signing right now is if he could extract a premium rate.

Signing Lindholm right now is the least desirable outcome. Sign him in season if he proves he can find chemistry with Huberdeau and can produce like a top line centre again, and if not? Trade him.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Lindholm is the best centre the team has had since Nieuwendyk.

If they trade him, they have to replace him. Anyone they replace him with is likely to be more expensive and not as good.

More importantly, Lindholm is currently the longest-tenured Flames forward after Backlund - collecting talent is part of the equation, but it doesn’t work if the guys in the room don’t live and die for each other.

That’s why it so rarely works out for the Flames, and why it’s important to draft and develop a core that’s roughly the same age and has 8-10 years to figure things out.

Because you don’t fall on a grenade for a mercenary, and this sport is full of grenades.

Not if they draft him.

Look...I'm 100% in the 'Trade Lindholm' camp.

Because he's too close to 30 and wants a giant contract and we're already the NHL's Official 'Old Age Home.'

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Lindholm and Huberdeau didn’t even play together last year. I’m not penciling them together.

There’s also zero reason why the Flames should be rushing in and paying Lindholm right now, and the only reason why Lindholm would be signing right now is if he could extract a premium rate.

Signing Lindholm right now is the least desirable outcome. Sign him in season if he proves he can find chemistry with Huberdeau and can produce like a top line centre again, and if not? Trade him.

Thisssssssss

[FlamesAddiction]

Huberdeau played with Lindholm a little more than 25% of the time. Not a lot, but enough of a sample size to see that it wasn't working. I would give it another shot this season though. New coaches, new strategies, and hopefully a better mindset, so maybe it will work this time.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Lindholm and Huberdeau didn’t even play together last year. I’m not penciling them together.

There’s also zero reason why the Flames should be rushing in and paying Lindholm right now, and the only reason why Lindholm would be signing right now is if he could extract a premium rate.

Signing Lindholm right now is the least desirable outcome. Sign him in season if he proves he can find chemistry with Huberdeau and can produce like a top line centre again, and if not? Trade him.

Keeping one of the longest tenured and best players on the team, who plays a premium position - yeah, if that option is available to you, do it.

Don’t blow your brains out to keep him. Don’t give him $9.5M

But they’re not rebuilding, and they’re better with Lindholm than without him. They’re not drafting his replacement now, and even if they are, that player is 3-5 years away from making an impact in the NHL.

Lindholm has been here long enough that being a Calgary flame might actually be something he’s proud of.

He was the 33rd highest scoring centre (on the 56th highest cap hit at his position) playing with Tyler Toffoli.

Playing under a coach who played Jonathan Huberdeau at RW, with Milan Lucic, for months.

They’re committed to this group, so give them their best chance to succeed and bring back Lindholm. Anything under $9M is an academic difference in the cap.
All it costs is money, and if they suck, we still get a good draft pick.

It probably won’t work no matter what; it definitely won’t if they don’t have Lindholm.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Locke

Not if they draft him.

Look...I'm 100% in the 'Trade Lindholm' camp.

Because he's too close to 30 and wants a giant contract and we're already the NHL's Official 'Old Age Home.'

keeping him doesn't mean we won't draft the next one - they aren't mutually exclusive

(save it - the team isn't rebuilding)

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Lindholm and Huberdeau didn’t even play together last year. I’m not penciling them together.

There’s also zero reason why the Flames should be rushing in and paying Lindholm right now, and the only reason why Lindholm would be signing right now is if he could extract a premium rate.

Signing Lindholm right now is the least desirable outcome. Sign him in season if he proves he can find chemistry with Huberdeau and can produce like a top line centre again, and if not? Trade him.

This is your best take ever.

[powderjunkie]

We've had 370 games of Lindholm. We're hoping to sign him for another 600+. IMO the next ~30 games should have very little bearing on the decision.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

We've had 370 games of Lindholm. We're hoping to sign him for another 600+. IMO the next ~30 games should have very little bearing on the decision.

If the entire idea of retaining Lindholm is to get the best out of Huberdeau and helping the team compete during those 8 years, does it not make sense to see if it works before committing?

We weren’t patient in signing Huberdeau, perhaps we should have been?

[TheIronMaiden]

The Huberdeau signing was an emotional over reaction. It kills me to think about what position this team would be in this off season if they 1. never traded away a pick with monahan to sign kadri, and 2. were patient and signed Huberdeau for a more reasonable contract, or traded him for picks and prospects.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

If the entire idea of retaining Lindholm is to get the best out of Huberdeau and helping the team compete during those 8 years, does it not make sense to see if it works before committing?

We weren’t patient in signing Huberdeau, perhaps we should have been?

To what end, though? Do you let a bad 40 game start on a new team overshadow the previous 4 straight 90 pt seasons? Trade him on a low? You're probably looking at a return somewhere between Tarasenko and Horvat...does that float your boat? Those were literally the first two trades consummated last season...the other good comp might have been Meier

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

To what end, though? Do you let a bad 40 game start on a new team overshadow the previous 4 straight 90 pt seasons? Trade him on a low? You're probably looking at a return somewhere between Tarasenko and Horvat...does that float your boat? Those were literally the first two trades consummated last season...the other good comp might have been Meier

…huh? 4 straight 90 point seasons? Who we talking about here? Oh Huby. Misread the response.

If they hadn’t signed Huby, and it really doesn’t work (like it didn’t) then yeah - you trade him for whatever futures related package you can get and deal with it.

If you don’t sign Huby, you also likely don’t make the Monahan trade/Kadri signing.

The team would be in a much better position to build going forward

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Huberdeau played with Lindholm a little more than 25% of the time. Not a lot, but enough of a sample size to see that it wasn't working. I would give it another shot this season though. New coaches, new strategies, and hopefully a better mindset, so maybe it will work this time.

I really don't think you can take much from that.

208 out of 1031 of Huberdeau's five on five minutes were spent with Lindholm. That's just 20% of his icetime which came straight out of the gate from training camp and pretty much exclusively with Toffoli on the opposite side. That line was sorely missing a speed component and a reliable transition player through the neutral zone. They also sported an on ice shooting % of just 4.95% which is half their individual averages from the past three years. Additionally Huberdeau had an xGF% of 57% with Lindholm which was actually the highest of any Flames centers on the roster.

I think there are many reasons to believe that they could form an extremely formidable top line.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Lindholm and Huberdeau didn’t even play together last year. I’m not penciling them together.

There’s also zero reason why the Flames should be rushing in and paying Lindholm right now, and the only reason why Lindholm would be signing right now is if he could extract a premium rate.

Signing Lindholm right now is the least desirable outcome. Sign him in season if he proves he can find chemistry with Huberdeau and can produce like a top line centre again, and if not? Trade him.

This is very sound logic but the Flames already gave him a very substantial offer didn't they? Seems like they've played their hand already, they want him and Lindholm is angling for more. I don't think the Flames are thinking about that sort of leverage at all. I still think they'll have a deal before game 1.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

If the entire idea of retaining Lindholm is to get the best out of Huberdeau and helping the team compete during those 8 years, does it not make sense to see if it works before committing?

We weren’t patient in signing Huberdeau, perhaps we should have been?

Those are your words, not the team's. They aren't signing Lindholm just to appease/play with Huberdeau. They will sign Lindholm because he's a good player. Or they will trade him if he doesn't want to sign or they can't agree on a number.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Those are your words, not the team's. They aren't signing Lindholm just to appease/play with Huberdeau. They will sign Lindholm because he's a good player. Or they will trade him if he doesn't want to sign or they can't agree on a number.

Hell, for all we know Huberdeau likes playing with Backlund (who he had the success with at the end of the season push).

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Hell, for all we know Huberdeau likes playing with Backlund (who he had the success with at the end of the season push).

Exactly.

You don't sign a player to a long term deal because you want them to play with another player, you sign them because they are a good player that you want on the team at that price. Rosters turn over every year - the guy you want him with may not even be on the team in a year or 2 (no one knows)

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

If the entire idea of retaining Lindholm is to get the best out of Huberdeau and helping the team compete during those 8 years, does it not make sense to see if it works before committing?

We weren’t patient in signing Huberdeau, perhaps we should have been?

Lindholm is far and away their best centre.

He doesn’t even need to work with Huberdeau - Barkov normally wasn’t his centre either.

But it’s a huge morale boost to go into the season knowing you’re going to retain a high quality centre like Lindholm for the duration of Huberdeau’s contract.

Lindholm isn’t Barkov, but he was good enough to get Tyler Toffoli to his first 30 goal season in 10 years and a career year at age 30.

Seems pretty good.

More importantly, we know he works as a Calgary Flame. His offense is good but not elite, and his defensive play is elite.

He has tenure and a connection to the city. You need players that have grown up here.

That’s why Rasmus is gonna be captain, because he’s been here and he cares. It has to come from within. Guys have to want to play here and be proud to play here.

So when you have developed player the caliber of Elias Lindholm, and he is willing to stay for a non-prohibitive amount, and you have decided you’re not rebuilding, you sign him.

Anything $9M or under is fine.