2008 NFL Training Camp and Preseason Thread.

[Trojan97]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

I wore a Chiefs jersey to Oakland (I will never do it again, infact I'll never set foot in that sewer again). Anyhow I think you'll be fine. I'm sure plenty of Texans fans must have rooted for the Cowboys at one time or another.

The Houston/Dallas rivalry runs just as deep (if not moreso) as the Calgary/Edmonton rivalry. That would be like saying plenty of Flames fans have cheered for the Oilers at one time or another. Football is like religion down there as we all know, 99% of the population is on one side or the other.

Most Houston fans turned their attention to UT full-time when the Oilers left town.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Shawne Merriman may be out for the year.

He's got some decisions to make. Feel bad for him, great player. The Chargers can suck it though!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3550426

[Displaced Flames fan]

Warner beats out Leinart in Arizona.

I'm guessing Whisenhunt didn't enjoy Leinart's 4/12 for 24 yards and 3 INT peformance yesterday.

I wonder if Matt Leinart realizes how close he is to being a bust?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3551359

Man, am I glad Cutler was the third QB to go in that draft. He's clearly way ahead of his classmates.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Are Raiders fans really that bad?

I'm surprised it is never talked about but yea, they are that bad. That youtube clip is not rare, esp. for division games there are hundreds of fights with a good handful of shank stabbings every game, the stadium is a dump, but it's the fine people of Oakland, CA that make that place special.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Trojan97

The Houston/Dallas rivalry runs just as deep (if not moreso) as the Calgary/Edmonton rivalry. That would be like saying plenty of Flames fans have cheered for the Oilers at one time or another. Football is like religion down there as we all know, 99% of the population is on one side or the other.

Most Houston fans turned their attention to UT full-time when the Oilers left town.

I don't know, threre isn't as much hate in that one. There's as much build up, but I don't see the deep rooted, hate as Cgy / Edm has.

[KTown]

More and more I watch the pre-season, I like the direction my dolphins are heading in. Can't wait for week 1 and the real football to begin.

[transplant99]

Shanahan says the Broncos will make the post-season.

So often these kind of statements come back to bite one in the butt.

Oh and he is also building a 35,000 sq.ft home.


http://calsun.canoe.ca/Sports/Footba...64261-sun.html

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Trojan97

The Houston/Dallas rivalry runs just as deep (if not moreso) as the Calgary/Edmonton rivalry. That would be like saying plenty of Flames fans have cheered for the Oilers at one time or another. Football is like religion down there as we all know, 99% of the population is on one side or the other.

Most Houston fans turned their attention to UT full-time when the Oilers left town.

I'm sure it is. Plenty of people originally from Edmonton currently live in Calgary and vice versa. I don't think its a stretch of the imagination to say that plenty of people living in Houston were originally from Dallas or some other part of Texas where they may have rooted for the Cowboys at some point in there lives.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

I'm surprised it is never talked about but yea, they are that bad. That youtube clip is not rare, esp. for division games there are hundreds of fights with a good handful of shank stabbings every game, the stadium is a dump, but it's the fine people of Oakland, CA that make that place special.

I guess people need to experience it first hand to get a real appreciation of how gross it really is.

[Bobblehead]

JT O'Sullivan was named the 49ers starting QB

So they have Alex Smith earning big $, and after Shaun Hill played well at the end of last season, they gave him a beefy contract. They gave O'Sullivan a minor 1 year contract (veterans minimum) in March, and now he is the starter.

Apparently O'Sullivan was the only one who figured out Martz's offense, although he has had an extra season to learn it, since he was with Martz last year in Detroit (and it was Martz who brought him to SF)

[burn_baby_burn]

A great example of why the current system of giving huge sums of guaranteed money to unproven rookies is unfair to the teams and veteran players.

[Bobblehead]

I'm not saying that Smith is, or should be, the 49ers QB, but I think he has had a different OC every year he has come to camp. He has had a brutal O-line his first couple of years (as far as pass protection). That can't be easy, and this looks to me like a case of a young QB being thrown to the wolves too soon and now he is "broken". It is one thing to learn at full speed, another to learn new playbooks every year at full speed. Smith's confidence is shot, and his teammates all know that and have lost faith in his abilities. Along with Nolan making statements about O'Sullivan like "the best the huddle has been run in 3 years" (paraphrased), I think for Smith to have a shot he needs to be traded.

[burn_baby_burn]

I guess you could say it isn't fair to Smith. Although he was financially compensated for his troubles. Too many young QB's fall through the cracks. Anybody that studies the history of the game can find numerous examples of HOF QB's that were tossed away or riding the pine when an injury or trade opened the door of opportunity for them. Steve Young in Tampa Bay is a good example. Terry Bradshaw had been given up for dead at the start of the 1974 season. Look at how that turned out. Len Dawson and Johnny Unitas were both released early in their careers.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

I guess you could say it isn't fair to Smith. Although he was financially compensated for his troubles. Too many young QB's fall through the cracks. Anybody that studies the history of the game can find numerous examples of HOF QB's that were tossed away or riding the pine when an injury or trade opened the door of opportunity for them. Steve Young in Tampa Bay is a good example. Terry Bradshaw had been given up for dead at the start of the 1974 season. Look at how that turned out. Len Dawson and Johnny Unitas were both released early in their careers.

I dont disagree with what you are saying....but how many of them (or those types) were given the opportunity that Smith was given? though I do think Smithw as quite simply...thrown to the Wolves.

This is why I was more than happy to see Favre back with the Packers both last year and the year before....(even as the nattering heads who thought Rodgers had somehow "earned" his chance to lead that team bellowed otherwise because he was 1st rd pick)....because there is NOTHING wrong with riding the pine while learning the NFL game from someone who understands it better.

I think the success of both Manning and Roethlisberger as 2nd or 3rd year players has REALLY distorted NFL GM's AND fandoms perception of what it takes to win in the NFL. I swear that coaches are under so much pressure to play the multi-million dollar draft pick that they let a better choice go.. and then start the young guy.

The Cardinal situation is another one....clearly Linehart isnt ready....so why NOT just go with Warner and let Matt learn and get some confidence back and also get into a practice routine that doesnt fill his head with expectations a starter has.


Go back 10 years...who has won the Super Bowl?

Brett Favre
John Elway x 2
Kurt Warner
Tom Brady x 3
Brad Johnson
Trent Dilfer
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Ben roethlisberger

All of them sans the last two...had been with there clubs for a couple years or 20 before getting to the big game.

[transplant99]

Edited because ESPN changes there story.

Chad johnson partially torn labrum but should be ready for season opener.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Go back 10 years...who has won the Super Bowl?

Brett Favre
John Elway x 2
Kurt Warner
Tom Brady x 3
Brad Johnson
Trent Dilfer
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Ben roethlisberger

All of them sans the last two...had been with there clubs for a couple years or 20 before getting to the big game.

Warner was a first time starter and a second year player. Brady was a second year player who came in mid-season after Bledsoe went down before the Pats first Super Bowl. Trent Dilfer only started around mid-season in his only season with the Ravens.

Your right though. Last season the media was all excited about Lienart untill he got hurt. Now after a bad preseason, he is all but written off.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Alo...just reported on ESPN that Chad Johnson has a torn labrum and could be gone for 3 months.

Not good news for Palmer and Company...or those who have him in fantasy pools.

I was actually thinking of Palmer - he was a guy who was sat for a year before being put into a starter role, and even then it wasn't until the 2nd half of the season that he "got it".

I'm not sure every QB needs a year of tutelage, but if a you QB is thrust into the starter's role, he has to be put into a position to have a chance to succeed - a decent offensive line, a running game (somewhat dependent upon 1, but some lines can't pass block for beans), and some receivers who the QB has faith in to catch the ball even if it isn't perfect.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Matt Ryan this year.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I think the success of both Manning and Roethlisberger as 2nd or 3rd year players has REALLY distorted NFL GM's AND fandoms perception of what it takes to win in the NFL. I swear that coaches are under so much pressure to play the multi-million dollar draft pick that they let a better choice go.. and then start the young guy.

Manning had other young players that matured with him. His ability, attention to detail, and work ethic are extraordinary. Very few QB's will come into a league and dominate like he has. Big Ben on the other hand landed on a good team. He had protection, he had a running game, he had receivers. It also didn't hurt that he had a defense.

A lot of the high draft pick QB's go to bad teams. The have no protection and they get the living snot knocked out of them. You really have to wonder how that hinders their development? For instance if David Carr, or Alex Smith, or Tim Couch are put into a situation like Rothlisberger. Would they also have Super Bowl rings? They would have protection and skilled players on the offense to work with. Plus they would have a defense that wouldn't let the game get out of hand. QB's on bad teams are always playing in a hole and need to take risky throws to try and get their teams back in the game.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

I was actually thinking of Palmer - he was a guy who was sat for a year before being put into a starter role, and even then it wasn't until the 2nd half of the season that he "got it".

I'm not sure every QB needs a year of tutelage, but if a you QB is thrust into the starter's role, he has to be put into a position to have a chance to succeed - a decent offensive line, a running game (somewhat dependent upon 1, but some lines can't pass block for beans), and some receivers who the QB has faith in to catch the ball even if it isn't perfect.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Matt Ryan this year.

Similar situation for Brodie Croyle as well. He has no protection, he also doesn't have a running game (same ineffective O-line attempting to run block). Maybe a simpler offense designed by Gailey will help to make things easier for him. Still its like he is set up to fail. He will get benched, the coach will get fired and some other poor young QB will be drafted to come in and get his clock cleaned as well.

[transplant99]

Warner was a first time starter and a second year player

But had kicked around playing Arena league and was 27 years old.

Brady was a second year player who came in mid-season after Bledsoe went down before the Pats first Super Bowl.

Yep...he too would fit in as an anomoly IMO.

Trent Dilfer only started around mid-season in his only season with the Ravens.

Well sure...but hell he was in his 7th season and had started 76 games with Tampa...hardly the same thing at all. He was no raw rookie that was thrown to the wolves....even though they had NO offensive weapons of concern that year.

A lot of the high draft pick QB's go to bad teams. The have no protection and they get the living snot knocked out of them. You really have to wonder how that hinders their development? For instance if David Carr, or Alex Smith, or Tim Couch are put into a situation like Rothlisberger. Would they also have Super Bowl rings? They would have protection and skilled players on the offense to work with. Plus they would have a defense that wouldn't let the game get out of hand. QB's on bad teams are always playing in a hole and need to take risky throws to try and get their teams back in the game.

Completely agree...which is why i do not understand the mentality of throwing these guys into the fire like they do.

Similar situation for Brodie Croyle as well. He has no protection, he also doesn't have a running game (same ineffective O-line attempting to run block). Maybe a simpler offense designed by Gailey will help to make things easier for him. Still its like he is set up to fail. He will get benched, the coach will get fired and some other poor young QB will be drafted to come in and get his clock cleaned as well.

Yup...looks like another that can be thrown on the scrap heap of "coulda beens".