2025 Toronto Blue Jays Season Thread

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I really don’t think they have an unlimited payroll. Cohen and the Dodgers are the only ones like that. In any case we got lucky with Wells getting off the books. The length of this deal combined with the amount will not be good. We can’t take back not paying him at a steal years back but we can’t take prevent a tough deal moving forward. I’d rather lose him for nothing than being tethered to a bad deal for eternity preventing future moves. We can’t take agree to disagree on this but bad contracts with those two fronts really strap a team. Especially if by that time they’re aiming to get a new stadium.

Here's the kicker though...what future moves does it prevent?

Free agents don't want to play in Canada for the most part.

Free agents will be even less likely to play here if there isn't a star player here already.

Jays are in a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario.

Personally it's not my money, Rogers has lots of it, I'd rather they pay up for Vlad and bet on potential than letting him walk and having lots of money but nobody that wants to play here anyways.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I really don’t think they have an unlimited payroll. Cohen and the Dodgers are the only ones like that. In any case we got lucky with Wells getting off the books. The length of this deal combined with the amount will not be good. We can’t take back not paying him at a steal years back but we can’t take prevent a tough deal moving forward. I’d rather lose him for nothing than being tethered to a bad deal for eternity preventing future moves. We can’t take agree to disagree on this but bad contracts with those two fronts really strap a team. Especially if by that time they’re aiming to get a new stadium.

I'm hoping if they sign Vlad its a bit front loaded to make the ending years more tradeable or at least palatable.

EG. instead of $550 straight over 15 years something like

11x$45 and then 4x$13.75

Then send him to a team looking to avoid an MLBPA complaint for not having a compliant payroll with a prospect after the 11 years, since IIRC that calculation is based on luxury tax payroll not actual $ payroll, and in the last 4 years his luxury tax would be ~$20MM/year more than actual $.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by bluejays

With Shapiro saying today he thinks they’ll resign Vlad, I assume the bridge is small at this point and it’ll get done. Each year past 7 or 8 will be terrible but fans don’t realize that. Imagine if the flames signed Lindholm for a monster deal? But this would be way worse. The Jays don’t have an unlimited budget to work around such a contract. In year 2034-2040 it’ll be dark times when you have that money tied up with him.

I can't imagine getting so worked up about something that MAY happen a decade in the future in sports.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I'm hoping if they sign Vlad its a bit front loaded to make the ending years more tradeable or at least palatable.

EG. instead of $550 straight over 15 years something like

11x$45 and then 4x$13.75

Then send him to a team looking to avoid an MLBPA complaint for not having a compliant payroll with a prospect after the 11 years, since IIRC that calculation is based on luxury tax payroll not actual $ payroll, and in the last 4 years his luxury tax would be ~$20MM/year more than actual $.

That’s exactly what I’m hoping for. Front load it to the max. It’s not about getting worked up about the future but not ruining future chances of being tied up in payroll on a dummy contract. You want a sustainable team so do sustainable things. And in the future if you have a generational talent and he’s shown it, lock him in early.

[Jason14h]

Why do you want it front loaded ? That just costs the Jays $$

You can just cover part of the salary and trade him in later years . That’s cheaper then front loading

Vlad would love it front loaded

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Why do you want it front loaded ? That just costs the Jays $$

You can just cover part of the salary and trade him in later years . That’s cheaper then front loading

Vlad would love it front loaded

If you cover part of the salary when you trade him you keep that percentage of his deal on the books for luxury tax purposes.

If you've already paid him the money and the new team pays 100% of a lower figure then they take the whole contract for CBT purposes.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

If you cover part of the salary when you trade him you keep that percentage of his deal on the books for luxury tax purposes.

If you've already paid him the money and the new team pays 100% of a lower figure then they take the whole contract for CBT purposes.

But you are paying more CBT is the earlier years - When you are trying to win

No team wants to front load contracts

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

But you are paying more CBT is the earlier years - When you are trying to win

No team wants to front load contracts

No you're paying the same amount of CBT in the early years. Both of the contracts I suggested have the same average annual value for CBT purposes.

You're paying Vlad more of his money earlier (and you might even get a bit of a discount for that) but the CBT is based on average annual value not cash paid in that year.

How it helps is because you're paying less cash than the AAV in later years it'll be easier to move the contract, becauae there are quite a few mlb teams that care more about cash than luxury tax considerations.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

No you're paying the same amount of CBT in the early years. Both of the contracts I suggested have the same average annual value for CBT purposes.

You're paying Vlad more of his money earlier (and you might even get a bit of a discount for that) but the CBT is based on average annual value not cash paid in that year.

How it helps is because you're paying less cash than the AAV in later years it'll be easier to move the contract, becauae there are quite a few mlb teams that care more about cash than luxury tax considerations.

1. Nope - CBT is based on the current/real day value. Not average.
2. No - It doesnt help to pay less later. Its way worse
3. A team can just cover a portion of the salary in later years if they need to move the contract.

Paying more up front makes zero sense for a team. Players want that. No team in history of any sport has wanted to pay more up front.

There is zero benefit to front loading a contract in baseball. There is a reason every team is starting to backload contracts - the Dodgers arent idiots

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

1. Nope - CBT is based on the current/real day value. Not average.
2. No - It doesnt help to pay less later. Its way worse
3. A team can just cover a portion of the salary in later years if they need to move the contract.

Paying more up front makes zero sense for a team. Players want that. No team in history of any sport has wanted to pay more up front.

There is zero benefit to front loading a contract in baseball. There is a reason every team is starting to backload contracts - the Dodgers arent idiots

"A team's Competitive Balance Tax figure is determined using the average annual value of each player's contract on the 40-man roster"

https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transac...ve-balance-tax

You're mixing up the rules for deferrals with the rules for regular contracts.

For a contract with no money deferred past the end of the contract (like the front loaded one I suggested above), the CBT value is the total money paid divided by total years.

For contracts with deferrals (eg Dodgers) first you take the present value of the deferred money the add that to all the money paid during the contract THEN divide by number of years.

For 3, you're correct that a team can cover a % of a contract to move it, but then they're stuck with that % of the CBT value. If the Jays are going to continue to be a tax payer that matters. If you've already paid the money to Vlad you can move the contract without cbt implications.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

"A team's Competitive Balance Tax figure is determined using the average annual value of each player's contract on the 40-man roster"

https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transac...ve-balance-tax

You're mixing up the rules for deferrals with the rules for regular contracts.

For a contract with no money deferred past the end of the contract (like the front loaded one I suggested above), the CBT value is the total money paid divided by total years.

For contracts with deferrals (eg Dodgers) first you take the present value of the deferred money the add that to all the money paid during the contract THEN divide by number of years.

For 3, you're correct that a team can cover a % of a contract to move it, but then they're stuck with that % of the CBT value. If the Jays are going to continue to be a tax payer that matters. If you've already paid the money to Vlad you can move the contract without cbt implications.

Thanks - Its late and the old fashions are taking their toll.

I guess you then are balancing CBT vs the players real value of $.

Edit question : why aren’t teams that are signing players to retirement contracts just adding multiple extra years at minimum salary to spread CBT and just trade the player for cash considerations equaling their salary to lower CBT . What am I missing

[Jason14h]

Kirk signs an extension

[Roof-Daddy]

Nice

[KootenayFlamesFan]

5 years, $58 million apparently.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

5 years, $58 million apparently.

Fair on AAV. Term little concern despite his girth because catchers have had success despite the chubbiness. It's a good deal.

[flambers]

Sounds like the roster was finalized today,

"The Toronto Blue Jays have begun finalizing their opening-day roster.

Alan Roden, Will Wagner, outfielders Myles Straw, Nathan Lukes have all been informed they have made the opening day roster, Sportsnet's Shi Davidi and Arden Zwelling reported Sunday.

Infielder Addison Barger was sent to triple-A Buffalo. The 25-year-old hit .367/.429/.733 with three home runs, six RBI and a 1.162 OPS in 15 spring training games"

[Roof-Daddy]

Tough one for Barger to put up a line like that and still get optioned. Hopefully he rakes and is back soon.

[Samonadreau]

This Ump must be like 6'6. Makes all the batters look 5'6

[nixon45]

Lovelady making this bullpen is scary. He was absolutely putrid every time I saw him in ST.

[bizaro86]

They've let Yarnborough walk as a FA - he had the option to force them to add him to the team (26 man roster) or let him walk. They elected to let him become an FA. Seems like the wrong decision to me considering how he pitched last year and this spring.