[PGT] Red Wings 4 Flames 3

[moon]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

What are you talking about? Aside from the games in Dallas and San Jose we've outplayed, outshot and out chanced almost every night. This team on paper should be in Edmonton territory and the fact that although the losses are starting to pile up, we've been competitive in almost every game. If we had even better than average goaltending we'd have 3 or 4 more wins. Aside from some debatable line up/scratches, Hartley's doing fine.

I am talking about watching the Flames getting outplayed. I know lots of people have equated skating hard and effort with outplaying the opponent but I don't remember many, if any games that the Flames have lost where they outplayed their opponent and a few games they were outplayed and won (LA for example).

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by moon

I am talking about watching the Flames getting outplayed. I know lots of people have equated skating hard and effort with outplaying the opponent but I don't remember many, if any games that the Flames have lost where they outplayed their opponent and a few games they were outplayed and won (LA for example).

Semantics: you are using "outplayed" in place of "out-skilled" or "out-experienced".

[Hockeyboi]

Originally Posted by Poe969

LOL. Last year wasn't a real season..... The cup didn't count, and anything bad didn't count but good things counted, that's it.

Hartley showed last year that he was a bad coach, this year he made the team work hard at camp and the team really came together at the start of the season. Now that the other teams have come together too, we look bad by comparisson. Hartley has made bad decisions by benching players and by putting certain players together. He leans on his vets (I don't care what anyone says, he doesn't "punish" the vets in any way like he does the younger players). The Flames aren't a good team but he is making them worse with his bad decisions. He did this last year and he'll do the same this year.

That's not what I meant, you can't expect any coach to come in and turn another coaches team around. Last season was a feeling process for Hartley, getting a feel for the players as he went coz with the lockout there was no training camp or pre-season. Now he has gotten a few new players and seen everyone in training camp and in pre-season he has done OK as far as I can see. Then again what would Hartley know, he's just won a Stanley Cup and is paid as massive amount of money to coach. You on the other hand are not so I'll side with Hartley on this one!!

[nik-]

Mike Keenan had won a Stanley Cup too.

[Hockeyboi]

Originally Posted by nik-

Mike Keenan had won a Stanley Cup too.

And some would argue that he wasn't given a chance either, fired only after 2 seasons into a 3 year contract. He did take the Flames to the playoffs so they might have a point. But this is about Hartley and not Keenan. In my opinion I think it's way to early to start bashing Hartley, the team are playing well, at least wait till the team start to play badly and lose games that they don't even show up for!

[moon]

Originally Posted by Hockeyboi

the team are playing well, at least wait till the team start to play badly and lose games that they don't even show up for!

Well the team is playing well is very debatable and last season there is 0 question as they were flat out bad.

Hard to think a team is playing well when they are 2nd last in the Western Conference and only thanks to the worst run organization in professional sports.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Hockeyboi

And some would argue that he wasn't given a chance either, fired only after 2 seasons into a 3 year contract. He did take the Flames to the playoffs so they might have a point. But this is about Hartley and not Keenan. In my opinion I think it's way to early to start bashing Hartley, the team are playing well, at least wait till the team start to play badly and lose games that they don't even show up for!

Keenan is brought up because the argument of "he won a Cup" is only relevant for a coach if it's recent. Hartley won one 12 years before he came here, with two of the best Centers to ever play, a Hall of Fame Dman and likely the best goalie ever. Keenan won one 13 years before he came here. Both guys had stretches where they were completely out of the league.

The game has changed.

[AC]

[Caged Great]

With Hartley, you can change the deck chairs on the titanic, but that doesn't mean that it'll help all that much. He's doing an okay job for the team that we have. I don't agree with everything but he is making them play hard and that's a good thing. As long as the kids learn good habits, it'll help down the road. If in a year or two you want to make some moves in the coaching department, that's fine, but for now it will not make a bit of difference.

[Scoreface]

The more they play some of the vets, the more their value seems to decline on the market.

The less they play the young guys (Sven, Backlund) the less development they have, and heaven forbid, their trade value is diminished at the expense of going with 'what's familiar.'

Guess what, going with the older guys still results in a loss! Goaltending is much to blame too. We all know that.

But for crying out loud, win mode still seems to be the in thing around here. It won't last long. Then the youth movement better sink in..for the good of the organization. I just ask for fair treatment for all.

If Hartley can't make the right moves at that time (which really is now already), then he needs to go so that our up and comers aren't fodder to throw on the high heap of previous disappointments.

[Enoch Root]

Another pretty good game from the Flames - they certainly played well enough to win.

I thought Baertschi - Monahan - Hudler was really good again and I would love to see them get PP time.

Pretty poor goaltending unfortunately, and it is no real surprise that MacDonald has been waved as he simply hasn't been the goalie we saw last year.

Russell continues to impress. Butler has really stepped up since Gio went down. Brodie is such a good, smart player. Colborne continues to improve.

After a couple weaker games, I thought Monahan was better last night.

All in all, 13 games into the rebuild and the team is competitive every night.