[News] Flames send 4 more packing

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

There it is, you are literally afraid of our prospects.

If Gaudreau gets scared off by Sven not making the team when he had all the opportunity to, we don't want him.

Do you think Gaudreau would want to come here knowing he'll likely play with 4th line players or worst play in the AHL? You may not like it but the fact is Gaudreau holds the cards here. for him to sign he'll want assurances he'll get top 6 to prove himself or he'll find someone who will.

[killer_carlson]

I would be prepared to give the organization the benefit of the doubt if they had a demonstrated path of successfully developing prospects. They do not.

We are about to start the most important rebuild in the history of the organization. Developing top end talent is the most important part of this rebuild.

So.............................

If Sven has tanked camp then I want to what the organization did to intervene when they noticed, why it wasn't caught earlier, where the sports psychologist and strength and conditioning coach were when they should have been with Sven.

This has been THE guy for the last 3 years. If these guys can't turn him into a key top performing player, then quite frankly I don't have the confidence in them developing Gaudreau, Gillies, Monahan, Poirier, Klimchuk etc.

These are fair questions. Another fair question is why they are doing this publically.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Merit based play time and earned roster spots are hardly terrible ideas during a rebuild. In fact, I would argue it makes much more sense...

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Hockey

Doesn't Knight have a decent size caphit? Is he on a 2 way then?

He's on an entry level deal, so although he'd have a large cap hit in the NHL, most of it is bonus money that he'll unlikely to achieve.

He got a $90,000 signing bonus. His AHL salary is $67,500, and his base NHL salary is $900,000 (which includes the signing bonus). The other $2.85M of his cap hit is made up of unlikely-to-obtain performance bonuses.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I would be prepared to give the organization the benefit of the doubt if they had a demonstrated path of successfully developing prospects. They do not.

We are about to start the most important rebuild in the history of the organization. Developing top end talent is the most important part of this rebuild.

So.............................

If Sven has tanked camp then I want to what the organization did to intervene when they noticed, why it wasn't caught earlier, where the sports psychologist and strength and conditioning coach were when they should have been with Sven.

This has been THE guy for the last 3 years. If these guys can't turn him into a key top performing player, then quite frankly I don't have the confidence in them developing Gaudreau, Gillies, Monahan, Poirier, Klimchuk etc.

These are fair questions. Another fair question is why they are doing this publically.

The Flames' development team is a joke compared to organizations like Montreal and it's one of the first things I hope Burke replaces.

[Walter Reed]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

Sven looking mediocre at the development camp is a fabrication, but this classic Calgary fan anti-skill player train is rolling so let's see what else people make up.

You'll have to convince Peter Mahr of that. Mahr made some surprising remarks in yesterdays post game program concerning Bärtschi's attitude and play in Penticton and it's carry-over into pre-season.

[BigRed]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Another fair question is why they are doing this publically.

THE question. I mean, WTF? Isn't the kid under enough pressure without a public shaming?

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by T@T

Do you think Gaudreau would want to come here knowing he'll likely play with 4th line players or worst play in the AHL? You may not like it but the fact is Gaudreau holds the cards here. for him to sign he'll want assurances he'll get top 6 to prove himself or he'll find someone who will.

I actually agree he holds the cards. I think there's a good chance we lose him. But not because he thinks the Flames will screw him, and not because the Flames didn't cower to Sven. If we lose him it will because he decides to take advantage of his situation and pick exactly where he wants to play.

The Flames should not be making any decisions about Sven signed and delivered prospect because of Gaudreau, they should making decisions on what THEY feel is best for Sven's development and the org.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Walter Reed

You'll have to convince Peter Mahr of that. Mahr made some surprising remarks in yesterdays post game program concerning Bärtschi's attitude and play in Penticton and it carry-over into pre-season.

I love Peter Maher* as a play-by-play guy but as an insider or analyst he's been suspect for years now.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

At some point you need to understand that, in terms of roster players, the Flames will be a barren wasteland soon.

If we're going to overreact every time a prospect goes through the motions, we'll never find success. No player or prospect will ever want to be a part of this organization.

SOMETIMES to help a player develop, you have to give them ice time they may not have earned with players who are at least capable of playing a top 6 role. Baertschi is not Monahan and cannot play a bottom 6 role with the same effectiveness. His defensive game isn't at his level either (but few players are at such a young age).

Agreed, lots of ways to handle different issues. I'm going to trust this coaching staff and management team has a better handle on what Sven's particular ailment requires than a bunch of fear mongering on a message board. Especially considering there a lot of folks like Mahre suggesting Sven's attitude hasn't been top notch so far at camp.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Agreed, lots of ways to handle different issues. I'm going to trust this coaching staff and management team has a better handle on what Sven's particular ailment requires than a bunch of fear mongering on a message board. Especially considering there a lot of folks like Mahre suggesting Sven's attitude hasn't been top notch so far at camp.

I don't think any of our coaches or management (besides Burke, perhaps) deserves a pass for anything. I can't trust anything any one in this organization does because of how little success we've found over the last half a decade.

Fans should be questioning things like this.

[Beatle17]

In regards to Sven, how did he play scoringwise, in the exhibition games he played in as I only saw the last game. I thought I read that he lead the comeback in his first game in Edmonton, led the offensive game in Saskatoon, did alright playing in Regina and supposedly didn't do too well in the games back in Calgary.

What was the difference in his linemates in these games? Was he played with offensive players in the first 3 games and less offensive players in the last 2 games? Did he do OK when he played with Monahan and/or Backlund? If so maybe it is a factor that better offensively skilled players need to be put into offensive situations. At the game last night he made some nice plays that didn't get finished well but then playing with Knight and Bouma could be a factor also.

I have always been a believer that offensive guys need to play with players who have a good offensive IQ for the game or it seems like they are going through the motions. If the other players aren't thinking the game at the same pace then the offensively gifted ones can seem to be lingering around, but what they are actually doing is waiting to make the play they see developing but the less offensively talented guys don't make the same read. An example of this is finding a guy to play with the Sedins in Vancouver. It took forever but the team finally found a player in Burrows (hate the guy) who understood what they needed and fit right in.

Maybe Sven needs to play with high IQ guys, like Monahan or Cammalleri, who read the play well and we would all see a more high level of play. If not then send him down and make him understand the dump and chase game that the NHL has become.

[Mister Yamoto]

Baertschi is the opening night roster. Guaranteed. Sending him down would be a PR nightmare for a management group that seems to be more concerned with optics than results.

He is starting the season in Calgary and everyone knows it.

Threatening to cut him is a flat out bluff. They are playing head games.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

Baertschi is the opening night roster. Guaranteed. Sending him down would be a PR nightmare for a management group that seems to be more concerned with optics than results.

He is starting the season in Calgary and everyone knows it.

Threatening to cut him is a flat out bluff. They are playing head games.

It might be a bluff, but he shouldn't be starting the season with Bouma or Jackman either (as much as I like Bouma).

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

Baertschi is the opening night roster. Guaranteed. Sending him down would be a PR nightmare for a management group that seems to be more concerned with optics than results.

He is starting the season in Calgary and everyone knows it.

Threatening to cut him is a flat out bluff. They are playing head games.

And he'll score 2 goals in a 4-3 win next week in Washington and all this will be forgotten.

[kehatch]

I can't believe how dramatic everyone is being (okay maybe I can). This isn't some ultra conspiracy that is going to end with Gaudreau refusing to sign and Calgary a barren wasteland of zero prospects.

The new regime has given prospects plenty of opportunity. Sieloff is going pro. Granlund and Ferland stuck around until nearly the last cut. Brodie should be top 4 this season. An army of prospects got time after the deadline last season.

Who was sent down that shouldn't have been? Granlund, Ferland, Wotherspoon, etc need some AHL time before they are ready for the NHL. In fact many of our prospects are in that boat. Guys like Knight didn't earn a spot.

What would Baertschi need to do to justify him not making the team? Or are people suggesting he should have a guarantee to making the team. Because frankly that would be a daft expectation. And Baertschi hasn't been good this preseason.

People realize that prospects can be called back up? People realize we are going to see a bunch of prospects this season regardless of what day one is?

Future prospects aren't looking for a guarantee. They are looking for an opportunity. And prospects have had that in Calgary and will get plenty of more this season. This over the top drama is ridiculous.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by getbak

I believe it's a line-touch drill.

You start at one goal line and skate to each of the lines on the ice and back: starting goal line --> near blue line --> starting goal line --> centre line --> starting goal line --> far blue line --> starting goal line --> far goal line --> starting goal line

All in 45 seconds.

I've done that drill in both basketball and football when I was younger, although we called them "windsprints" presumably because you're winded by the end of it.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

I've done that drill in both basketball and football when I was younger, although we called them "windsprints" presumably because you're winded by the end of it.

Yeah, our football coach called them "gassers"

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by BigRed

THE question. I mean, WTF? Isn't the kid under enough pressure without a public shaming?

I agree. I don't like how Feaster has handled this - he needs to talk less.

I also don't think 'Artley has handled him well either

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I would be prepared to give the organization the benefit of the doubt if they had a demonstrated path of successfully developing prospects. They do not.

We are about to start the most important rebuild in the history of the organization. Developing top end talent is the most important part of this rebuild.

So.............................

If Sven has tanked camp then I want to what the organization did to intervene when they noticed, why it wasn't caught earlier, where the sports psychologist and strength and conditioning coach were when they should have been with Sven.

This has been THE guy for the last 3 years. If these guys can't turn him into a key top performing player, then quite frankly I don't have the confidence in them developing Gaudreau, Gillies, Monahan, Poirier, Klimchuk etc.

These are fair questions. Another fair question is why they are doing this publically.

Lol, I'm sure you'd know exactly what to do with the report they'd generate for you.

Stop acting like this is a new phenom out of no where. Looks to me like the Flames identified this quiet a while ago and have been taking some very public steps to rectify.

"The Man" spent plenty of time in Abby last year, something I'm sure wasn't plan A for the kid, and clearly they felt he required attending rookie camp in Penticton this year, not something they would have required if they were fully confident he was ready to go or if he'd been showing he was on the right track last year.

Seems to me they shown you plenty in regards to the opportunities and steps they are taking and giving him to rectify the issue. Have just not been noticing this crap? Seemed pretty clear to me last year when he struggled to stick that things weren't exactly where Sven and the Flames wanted them to be (not that it's a big deal) and the fact that he's not a lock shouldn't be shocking to anyone who's been reading the signs and seeing what the Flames have been doing with him since last season. What more do you need to see?

Also how do you know a sports psychologist hasn't been with him? The Flames employ one, and why is that the problem. There's been just as much indication that the kid might actually have too much confidence and isn't really feeling like he needs to be proving himself as there is that he's shivering in the corner from all the pressure of being the "next one"