[News] Flames send 4 more packing

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by strombad

I REALLY don't get any entitlement from him, I get a guy who is easily disappointed. If you listen to the things he actually says 98% of the time, he sounds a little lost in his head, a little like he's waiting to be disappointed or just generally easily put off.

So you're saying he isn't mentally strong enough or mature enough to deal with the grind of the NHL?

He doesn't need to go down to Abby and learn to work hard, he knows how to work hard. He needs a confidence boost and a little bit of the pressure eased off. We've all seen it, Sven has even SAID it, he gets too far into his own head looking for some results, but when he gets them? He goes on a tear, he's a machine.

Well, if he isn't working hard enough at the camps leading up to the opportunity to earn a position in the NHL then it seems to me the AHL is the exact place he needs to be. I don't care what the kid says, his actions speak louder. The reason most talented players never make it to the NHL is they lack consistency in their game. Sven could seriously use some time being the guy for a team and becoming a dominant player at the AHL level. Once he learns the level of commitment it takes to be that player at that level then he can take that next step to being that player in the NHL.

Effort or entitlement is not his issue, not even close. His issue is learning to take the pressure off of himself and have the confidence to actually play his game instead of fearing a lack of results.

You don't learn to do that under the pressure of the NHL game or NHL schedule. If this really is what is holding Sven back then he should be trying to find those qualities at a level where the pressure isn't going to be quite so high.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by New Era

So you're saying he isn't mentally strong enough or mature enough to deal with the grind of the NHL?



Well, if he isn't working hard enough at the camps leading up to the opportunity to earn a position in the NHL then it seems to me the AHL is the exact place he needs to be. I don't care what the kid says, his actions speak louder. The reason most talented players never make it to the NHL is they lack consistency in their game. Sven could seriously use some time being the guy for a team and becoming a dominant player at the AHL level. Once he learns the level of commitment it takes to be that player at that level then he can take that next step to being that player in the NHL.

You don't learn to do that under the pressure of the NHL game or NHL schedule. If this really is what is holding Sven back then he should be trying to find those qualities at a level where the pressure isn't going to be quite so high.

I never once addressed the idea of him needing the stay in the NHL, as the AHL could be beneficial to him (perhaps).

I'm simply sick of people labelling him entitled or with some attitude problem, when there is quite literally nothing that points to either of those. Guy has confidence issues and is a little bit mentally fragile. The aspect of NHL vs. AHL is completely irrelevant to my point, if that's what you're worried about.

But again, you mention his need to learn commitment, you're wrong. Every time he's looked bad isn't because he's looked lazy or bored, he's looked hesitant. Huge difference.

The guy has a great work ethic, he simply needs to clear some mental hurdles to take the next step.

[Yanda]

Im probably in the minority, but I want to see Horak on the 3rd line later this year, he's constently getting the short end of the stick on his development path and it would be pretty sweet if he could develop into secondary scoring like Martin Gelinas or German Titov.

We would need to move veterans to make room, maybe his strong play will encourage management to move one.

[killer_carlson]

This is ridiculous.

This is a head game they are playing with Sven. He will 100% make the team.

If Sven doesn't make this team out of this camp, then the organization needs to be held accountable. The kid's work ethic is beyond reproach and it's a confidence issue.

The organization has had one (1) skilled forward prospect with top 3 potential in the last 10 years. And Sven is prepared to work and work hard. It's his best quality. If this gets screwed up, and Sven is cut, then our player development team should be coming forward and pointing the finger at themselves.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by strombad

I'm simply sick of people labelling him entitled or with some attitude problem, when there is quite literally nothing that points to either of those. Guy has confidence issues and is a little bit mentally fragile. The aspect of NHL vs. AHL is completely irrelevant to my point, if that's what you're worried about.

Confidence issues? He was overshadowed at the development camp, an event he should have been heads and tails better than anyone else in attendance. If he doesn't have the confidence to shine against the other prospects in the Flames system how the hell is he ever going to be a NHL player of note?

But again, you mention his need to learn commitment, you're wrong. Every time he's looked bad isn't because he's looked lazy or bored, he's looked hesitant. Huge difference.

Management disagrees with your evaluation.

The guy has a great work ethic, he simply needs to clear some mental hurdles to take the next step.

Again, management disagrees with your assessment. I don't know how many times Feaster has to speak of the disappointment they have in Baertschi, but that disappointment is not in his skill or confidence, it is in his willingness to compete on a consistent basis. That is the difference between NHL and minor league players.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

This is ridiculous.

This is a head game they are playing with Sven. He will 100% make the team.

If Sven doesn't make this team out of this camp, then the organization needs to be held accountable. The kid's work ethic is beyond reproach and it's a confidence issue.

The organization has had one (1) skilled forward prospect with top 3 potential in the last 10 years. And Sven is prepared to work and work hard. It's his best quality. If this gets screwed up, and Sven is cut, then our player development team should be coming forward and pointing the finger at themselves.

Exactly how do you know that Sven is working hard? How do you know it's his best quality? Sorry, there's a lot of assuming going on, but this management staff has cycled over at this point, so why on earth would you assume that a management team of Feaster, Wisebroad, Conroy and Burke along with a coaching staff of Hartley, Gelinas, and all need to be held accountable if Sven doesn't crack this squad?

None of us know for sure what's going on unless we are in the inner workings of the team, but really, you think that staff with plenty of cap room and a throw away season coming up would make the decision to send Sven down if it wasn't warranted? You honestly think that is more likely, that not one of those guys would have the good sense to question it? You think that all those guys with all their experience are more likely to be getting wrong than it is that a 20 year old kid might not be doing something right?

The absolute fear some folks have on here about Flames management and the absolute fear people have about our prospects and the need to coddle them is rediculous. Smart money is that if Sven gets sent down, he likely earned his ticket down whether it be because of work ethic, attitude or whatever, not that all those folks in the Flames brain trust are being idiots

[killer_carlson]

How do I know it's Sven's best quality?

Because it's been hammered home to us ever since we drafted the kid. That's what separates Sven from his peers - his commitment to getting better. If he isn't a committed, hard working kid then the organization has been lying to us and need to be held accountable for that instead.

If Sven's demotion is warrented, then I want to know what the team was doing, or not doing, which contributed to this.

I think this is a cheap head game by Feaster and Hartley. Period.

[Machiavelli]

^ What would they gain by playing head games with one of their best prospects? It's not in their best interests to do so; it makes no sense.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

^ What would they gain by playing head games with one of their best prospects? It's not in their best interests to do so; it makes no sense.

I think they're just trying to light a fire under his ass. He's looked disinterested at times this training camp, and that's not acceptable for a guy with 25 NHL games.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Exactly how do you know that Sven is working hard? How do you know it's his best quality? Sorry, there's a lot of assuming going on,

Because from Switzerland to Portland to Abbotsford every coach and player he's been with has said it's one of his best qualities.

Flames coaches had better be careful how they treat our skilled players, a guy like gaudreau might look at this in a negative way.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

How do I know it's Sven's best quality?

Because it's been hammered home to us ever since we drafted the kid. That's what separates Sven from his peers - his commitment to getting better. If he isn't a committed, hard working kid then the organization has been lying to us and need to be held accountable for that instead.

If Sven's demotion is warrented, then I want to know what the team was doing, or not doing, which contributed to this.

I think this is a cheap head game by Feaster and Hartley. Period.

The people that hammered that into us will be the same ones sending him down if that occurs. If you trusted their judgement then, why not now.

Sorry, as was just noted, there is no gain, no end game to them playing head games with him this year, no contract or cap benefits. If he gets sent down, people obviously it's what he needs, not game playing.

[Savvy27]

Sven looking mediocre at the development camp is a fabrication, but this classic Calgary fan anti-skill player train is rolling so let's see what else people make up.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

This is ridiculous.

This is a head game they are playing with Sven. He will 100% make the team.

If Sven doesn't make this team out of this camp, then the organization needs to be held accountable. The kid's work ethic is beyond reproach and it's a confidence issue.

The organization has had one (1) skilled forward prospect with top 3 potential in the last 10 years. And Sven is prepared to work and work hard. It's his best quality. If this gets screwed up, and Sven is cut, then our player development team should be coming forward and pointing the finger at themselves.

And as often as not, it is beneficial for young guys to regain confidence in the AHL instead of struggling in the NHL.

If he goes down its nothing to completely freak out about as many here have claimed, it just as easily could mean its the best way to get him back where he needs to be.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by T@T

Because from Switzerland to Portland to Abbotsford every coach and player he's been with has said it's one of his best qualities.

Flames coaches had better be careful how they treat our skilled players, a guy like gaudreau might look at this in a negative way.

There it is, you are literally afraid of our prospects.

If Gaudreau gets scared off by Sven not making the team when he had all the opportunity to, we don't want him.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

This is ridiculous.

This is a head game they are playing with Sven. He will 100% make the team.

If Sven doesn't make this team out of this camp, then the organization needs to be held accountable. The kid's work ethic is beyond reproach and it's a confidence issue.

The organization has had one (1) skilled forward prospect with top 3 potential in the last 10 years. And Sven is prepared to work and work hard. It's his best quality. If this gets screwed up, and Sven is cut, then our player development team should be coming forward and pointing the finger at themselves.

This organization kills the confidence of young players. Horak's first full year in Abbotsford, he starts on fire and leads the AHL in goals for the first month or so.

After Ward gets his hands on him, he fails to score more than 5 goals for the rest of the season. The kid was on fire offensively, and Ward was always trying to get the team and Horak to be more defensive minded.

The Heat were one of the top teams in the league at that time, and then missed the playoffs embarrassingly.

Ward is just one of many things I think are an issue here.

Add to that, a vocal portion of the fan base always make their displeasure known with players like Baertschi. I expect they'll go after Monahan around December, and Gaudreau come next season.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by T@T

Flames coaches had better be careful how they treat our skilled players, a guy like gaudreau might look at this in a negative way.

Jesus... all they're doing is making Sven earn a roster spot.

If a guy can't handle a little bit of adversity, he's not a player worth keeping. NHL players go thru ups and downs throughout their entire careers.

[Hockey]

Doesn't Knight have a decent size caphit? Is he on a 2 way then?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

[The Fonz]

What the hell is even going on anyway? Sven wasn't sent down.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

Sven looking mediocre at the development camp is a fabrication, but this classic Calgary fan anti-skill player train is rolling so let's see what else people make up.

Were you there? Lots of people thought he was. I'd say those so upset about this potentially happening is his classic Phenomenon :

2 seasons ago we got really jazzed about Sven kind of coming out of no where and being a ready now pass the torch superstar. Last season and so far this training camp he's struggled versus expectations. So people need something to blame for Sven not slotting into the role they'd hoped at this point. If they blame Sven (for whatever reason) it means he's actually not as ready YET as they'd hoped, which is hard to swallow, still going to have to hear about how our prospects aren't that strong yet. But if they blame management, it allows them to hold on to hope that our prospect pool and Sven actually is ready now and that makes them feel better. It's what the fans want, Sven to be a star now, so blaming management for why he isn't getting it done YET makes it easier to swallow.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

There it is, you are literally afraid of our prospects.

If Gaudreau gets scared off by Sven not making the team when he had all the opportunity to, we don't want him.

At some point you need to understand that, in terms of roster players, the Flames will be a barren wasteland soon.

If we're going to overreact every time a prospect goes through the motions, we'll never find success. No player or prospect will ever want to be a part of this organization.

SOMETIMES to help a player develop, you have to give them ice time they may not have earned with players who are at least capable of playing a top 6 role. Baertschi is not Monahan and cannot play a bottom 6 role with the same effectiveness. His defensive game isn't at his level either (but few players are at such a young age).