Chinook Centre's Security - Highly Aggressive? You decide.

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Why would you ask a police officer? These rent-a-cops have no more rights than me and you.

Seriously. Do you even read what others post? Have you even done ANY research?

[Thor]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

Gotta say, I expected this from a lot of posters, but I didnt think it would come from you.

Not saying I disagree, just saying it surprised me

I was mostly joking around, sorry I have a weird sense of humor

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Trust me, you don't come across as a know-it-all.

Did you even comprehend that use of force continuum?

He admitted to being an active resistor. He continued to "actively" resist and not cooperate. Should they have just asked hom nicely and bought him some flowers.

How about this, you and 4 or 5 friends can try an arrest me while im actively resisting. Are you going to roll around with me on the pavement and just try and free my arm from underneath me with your hand? Good luck. Are they authorized to use strikes for such resistance? Yup.

Are you authorized as a private citizen? Yup.

The kicker is the word "reasonable" and is based on the totality of circumstances including everything from subject behaviour, to subject background to environmental conditions to ones own personal abilities and EVERYTHING in between.

It makes no difference if YOU think the authority for arrest exists or doesn't. If you are arrested by a cop or someone in a lawful position to make arrests, I would suggest being cooperative and reasonable before spouting off and throwing your coffee.

This guy is NOT a victim. It seems everyone is simply condemning the actions of the security guards simply due to their own personal biases about "$10 doolar rent-a-cops".

So what that one guy did was allowed? Why was he fired, then?

[Zulu29]

^^^

Probably against company policy

[Minnie]

Must be a little more than just 'against company policy' if the police are speaking with Dussept tomorrow about whether or not he wishes to press charges.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

^^^

Probably against company policy

Well that wouldn't make ay sense. Bent Wookie is saying it's standard procedure. How could a security company make something that is apparantly "required" to make a safe arrest against company policy?

That would be putting their employees at risk, if those actions are required to make safe arrests.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Trust me, you don't come across as a know-it-all.

Did you even comprehend that use of force continuum?

He admitted to being an active resistor. He continued to "actively" resist and not cooperate. Should they have just asked hom nicely and bought him some flowers.

How about this, you and 4 or 5 friends can try an arrest me while im actively resisting. Are you going to roll around with me on the pavement and just try and free my arm from underneath me with your hand? Good luck. Are they authorized to use strikes for such resistance? Yup.

Are you authorized as a private citizen? Yup.

The kicker is the word "reasonable" and is based on the totality of circumstances including everything from subject behaviour, to subject background to environmental conditions to ones own personal abilities and EVERYTHING in between.

It makes no difference if YOU think the authority for arrest exists or doesn't. If you are arrested by a cop or someone in a lawful position to make arrests, I would suggest being cooperative and reasonable before spouting off and throwing your coffee.

This guy is NOT a victim. It seems everyone is simply condemning the actions of the security guards simply due to their own personal biases about "$10 doolar rent-a-cops".

In your professional opinion, what did this guy do that got him arrested? All we've heard so far is that he sat on the escalator, he was rude to the security guards, and he littered.

Do people normally get arrested for these things?

And can you tell us why the real police let him go if what he did warranted this kind of reaction?

[CofR]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

And can you tell us why the real police let him go if what he did warranted this kind of reaction?

I'm pretty sure I read that he was issued a summons for the incident.

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

In your professional opinion, what did this guy do that got him arrested? All we've heard so far is that he sat on the escalator, he was rude to the security guards, and he littered.

Do people normally get arrested for these things?

And can you tell us why the real police let him go if what he did warranted this kind of reaction?

Not sure I can answer that. And I agree, force can only be seen as reasonable if it first endures some sort of test of a lawful arrest.

None of us can say what got him arrested. Maybe he refused to leave (that makes him arrestable).

His interview with the Herald is pretty telling IMO. I am willing to bet he did more then just yell and swear (which technically is also arrestable ie. breach of the peace, cause disturbance).

Originally Posted by Minnie

Must be a little more than just 'against company policy' if the police are speaking with Dussept tomorrow about whether or not he wishes to press charges.

To be clear, Dussept is probably making a formal complaint. HE doesn't decide to "press charges".... too much American TV for you!

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Not sure I can answer that. And I agree, force can only be seen as reasonable if it first endures some sort of test of a lawful arrest.

None of us can say what got him arrested. Maybe he refused to leave (that makes him arrestable).

His interview with the Herald is pretty telling IMO. I am willing to bet he did more then just yell and swear (which technically is also arrestable ie. breach of the peace, cause disturbance).

Yeah, but the thing is nobody is even claiming he did anything other than what we've heard already. The real police let him go, the mall fired one of the guards.

If he actually did something like punched a mall cop or was waving around his reefer scissors, then tough break pal, you got a little roughed up and you probably deserved it for taking a swing or acting crazy.

If all he did was mouth off as he was leaving the mall (which is the story that nobody seems to be disputing), then mall cops don't have the right to whip his ass, "active resistance" or not. They shouldn't even be touching the guy to give him a chance to resist.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Has anyone thought that maybe he went to the mall to buy some scissors, and those are the ones he had with him? You know... in a bag? With a receipt?

Why would anyone go to Chinook to buy scissors? He should have gone to the Scissor Hut. Or Scissors R Us. They're both on 3rd. In the scissor district.

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Yeah, but the thing is nobody is even claiming he did anything other than what we've heard already. The real police let him go, the mall fired one of the guards.

If he actually did something like punched a mall cop or was waving around his reefer scissors, then tough break pal, you got a little roughed up and you probably deserved it for taking a swing or acting crazy.

If all he did was mouth off as he was leaving the mall (which is the story that nobody seems to be disputing), then mall cops don't have the right to whip his ass, "active resistance" or not. They shouldn't even be touching the guy to give him a chance to resist.

The mall firing the guard doesn't hold a tonne of weight for me since I can imagine they were getting some serious pressure.

It could be that the police are waiting to see the CCTV or interview other witnesses before laying a charge.

[Clarkey]

This happens outside of Cowboys and every other Calgary night club at least 4 nights a week.

[Dion]

CPS spokesperson Kevin Brookwell said Doussept did not wish to provide a statement at the time of the incident, but investigators proactively contacted him when he later expressed his intention in the media to file a complaint.

Security experts who have viewed the video have either questioned or condemned the behaviour of the security guards.

David Hyde, an independent security consultant who used to ovesee all of Cadillac Fairview’s security, said the company has one of the most robust training programs in the industry for its guards.

While Hyde said it’s possible the arrest may have been justified, he questioned some of the security officers’ language and actions.

“There a screening process and the right people are normally hired, but sometimes there are going to be mistakes,” Hyde said.

“Things can get amped up, but swearing is never appropriate and neither is continuing to force someone’s arms behind their back when they complain they can’t.”

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...039/story.html

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

It makes no difference if YOU think the authority for arrest exists or doesn't. If you are arrested by a cop or someone in a lawful position to make arrests, I would suggest being cooperative and reasonable before spouting off and throwing your coffee.

This guy is NOT a victim.

Until the mall and/or the security company releases a statement giving a reason for the physical detention then yes, in my eyes he is the victim of either misguided, incompetent or power hungry individuals.

[Sr. Mints]

Thanks to the video posted in this thread of a mall cop beating at Marlborough, leading me to a video of a lady with a nice rack shopping at Walmart in Calgary for deals, to me recognizing her, to me discovering that she went to high school with me, and me finding out she does porn.

So at the expense of some guy getting his ass kicked by mall cops, I am actually quite happy to discover that I know [knew?] a porn star.

It's all about balance, people. Balance makes the world go round.

I hope your bruises heal, neck-tattoo scissor-guy.

Thanks for taking one in the name of balance!

[MrMastodonFarm]

So, about your porn friend...

[pylon]

lol.

Cassie Leanne.

The took about 2 minutes to figure out.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

None of us can say what got him arrested. Maybe he refused to leave (that makes him arrestable).

That's kind of a big deal. If he did nothing to get arrested, then whether or not they used excess force is second fiddle to unlawful arrest. In which case resisting unlawful arrest isn't necessary wrong at all.

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

This guy is NOT a victim. It seems everyone is simply condemning the actions of the security guards simply due to their own personal biases about "$10 doolar rent-a-cops".

Where as you're not being biased? Listen, we got half a story halfway through it. Anyone who's making any judgements at all are being biased, that's how it works. It's understandable that people are jumping against the security when all we have is a video of security guard screaming "I'm going to #### you up" and another throwing punches to the guy on the ground. Remove the uniforms (which mean absolutely nothing) and that's a video that looks remarkably like a jumping.

Maybe he did do something, maybe he didn't. Saying he's not a victim without actually knowing anything though is premature. And I like the idea of that "innocent until proven guilty" mindset, so unless someone actually says he did anything other than smell maybe like weed and sit on an escalator, I'm not going to assume much more than he's just a ######bag.