How long before Feaster makes a move, and WHAT does he do?

[zamler]

Originally Posted by timbit

I sincerely hope he does not resort to "patchworking" this team for the umpteenth time.

As far as I can tell, the mandate from the head office is still "win now" mode. People are quick to blame Feaster (as they were Darryl Sutter) but to me it is very clear by now that the general managers decisions are strongly guided by ownership.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

3-4 1st round picks? LOL.

From everything i have read, the FLyers look at Couturier as a great 2 way 2nd line center in the future. Not sure how that is worth up to 4 first round picks?

whooosh

[MisterJoji]

Bouwmeester and a 1st would get it done. Philly was supposed to be a legit contender this year but are currently clinging to 8th in the east. They have decent Center depth with Giroux, Briere, and Rinaldo ahead of Courtier, but when you have Grossman and Gervais in your top 4 on D, that is a problem. And with the 1st rounder thrown in there, that's a potential top 10, they could probably effectively replace Couturier. So they'd gain a legit top 4 Dman and a potential pick to replace the player they lost. Pretty good deal for them. That said, watch Feaster do that trade for Briere.

What is really like to see is Kipper come back healthy, return to regular form and ship him and JBo to Philly for Couturier or Schenn, plus their 1st rounder, plus a conditional pick. A 2nd rounder if Kipper re-signs or they make it to the SCF this year. A 4th if neither happens.

EDIT: I realize we'd have to take back salary to make it happen, so we'd probably get someone like Gagne, or even Bryzgalov.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Bouwmeester and a 1st would get it done. Philly was supposed to be a legit contender this year but are currently clinging to 8th in the east. They have decent Center depth with Giroux, Briere, and Rinaldo ahead of Courtier, but when you have Grossman and Gervais in your top 4 on D, that is a problem. And with the 1st rounder thrown in there, that's a potential top 10, they could probably effectively replace Couturier. So they'd gain a legit top 4 Dman and a potential pick to replace the player they lost. Pretty good deal for them. That said, watch Feaster do that trade for Briere.

What is really like to see is Kipper come back healthy, return to regular form and ship him and JBo to Philly for Couturier or Schenn, plus their 1st rounder, plus a conditional pick. A 2nd rounder if Kipper re-signs or they make it to the SCF this year. A 4th if neither happens.

EDIT: I realize we'd have to take back salary to make it happen, so we'd probably get someone like Gagne, or even Bryzgalov.

Cap space will be an Issue in that trade. Flames would have to eat half of each players salary to make that happen.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Why would Flyers want to give up a premier Centre prospect for a Aging RWer and a young LW who may not be as good as their Centre prospect? What do they gain in regards to what they lose?

Marquee centres are incredibly tough to get in the league. You don't simply give them up since if you want to be a contending team you need those type of assets. You moreso don't give it up when you have a potential one in a 20 year old. Those are gold and key pieces in what will keep you competeitive years down the road.

They may accept if you give up Iggy, Sven, AND the Flames first rounder this year.

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Your saying that Couturier is worth as much, if not more, than they got for Richards or Carter?

I don't see it.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Iginla Baertschi and our 1st (currently 6th overall) is much more than they got for Carter (Voracek, a 1st and a 3rd)

The package they got for Carter was two top ten picks and a third rounder. two players over 6'3 and over 200 lbs, one now scoring more than a point per game and the other perhaps the best young defensive centre in hockey. Iginla and Baertschi doesn't come close to matching that return, Iginla, Baertschi and 1 top ten pick (our first) is coming close.

I'm not saying Couturier has close to the value of Jeff Carter right now, but in the eyes of the Flyers, who were motivated to move Jeff Carter out (which is not the case with Couturier), it's likely their socks have to be blown off to deal him. Iginla, Baert and a 1st is in that ballpark, but it would probably be more stupid to do that deal than the one Feaster just tried.

Originally Posted by kehatch

I think people might be over valuing Couturier a little bit. Philly has all kinds of options at C. Giroux and Schenn are ahead of him in the pecking order and Talbot is a great 3-line option for a shutdown lone.

I don't think they are interested in Iginla or Baertschi. But if you are offering Bouwmeester and a 1st for example you might be able to pry him out of Philly.

That said, Philly is odd. Some of their players are really untouchable. Others are traded out of the blue. So who knows.

Coutourier has only been 20 for 2 months.

Coutourier stepped into the league as an 18 year old, played the whole season except for getting his bell rung and missing 5 games, and scored 30 points while being a plus player.

He proved capable of shadowing a top 5 NHL forward in his first season of professional hockey and has since displayed a particular knack for defending. through the first four games of Pens/Flyers series last year, Coutourier was a +4 with 4 goals matching up almost exclusively against Malkin and his 0 goals and -4.

He was so effective in this role that the Penguins began to target Couturier during their playoff series last year with cheapshots because of how utterly effective he was for stifling their top players. Malking specifically was effectively taken out of the series, a basket case of frustration because of Couturier's oppressive defense. That's the value pro-scouts see that fans often don't.

Conversely, Baertschi is defensively suspect, less offensive at this point and undersized. Iginla is a defensive liability, has seemingly fallen off the map in terms of offense, makes 7 million bucks and likely won't be around after his contract expires for them anyway. Philly likely isn't even buyers this year as they are a borderline playoff team in a clear rebuilding year.

It makes no sense for them to trade for Iginla, let alone give up one of their cornerstone players of the future. Hell, Coutourier is even younger than Baertschi (by a few months).

Besides, why on earth would you do that as a flames fan when you're talking about picking a player in the draft in the same area where Couturier himself was picked?

Just get your own goddamned players, and quit coveting those of other organizations. It's lazy.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The package they got for Carter was two top ten picks and a third rounder. two players over 6'3 and over 200 lbs, one now scoring more than a point per game and the other perhaps the best young defensive centre in hockey. Iginla and Baertschi doesn't come close to matching that return, Iginla, Baertschi and 1 top ten pick (our first) is coming close.

I'm not saying Couturier has close to the value of Jeff Carter right now, but in the eyes of the Flyers, who were motivated to move Jeff Carter out (which is not the case with Couturier), it's likely their socks have to be blown off to deal him. Iginla, Baert and a 1st is in that ballpark, but it would probably be more stupid to do that deal than the one Feaster just tried.
Coutourier has only been 20 for 2 months.

Coutourier stepped into the league as an 18 year old, played the whole season except for getting his bell rung and missing 5 games, and scored 30 points while being a plus player.

He proved capable of shadowing a top 5 NHL forward in his first season of professional hockey and has since displayed a particular knack for defending. through the first four games of Pens/Flyers series last year, Coutourier was a +4 with 4 goals matching up almost exclusively against Malkin and his 0 goals and -4.

He was so effective in this role that the Penguins began to target Couturier during their playoff series last year with cheapshots because of how utterly effective he was for stifling their top players. Malking specifically was effectively taken out of the series, a basket case of frustration because of Couturier's oppressive defense. That's the value pro-scouts see that fans often don't.

Conversely, Baertschi is defensively suspect, less offensive at this point and undersized. Iginla is a defensive liability, has seemingly fallen off the map in terms of offense, makes 7 million bucks and likely won't be around after his contract expires for them anyway. Philly likely isn't even buyers this year as they are a borderline playoff team in a clear rebuilding year.

It makes no sense for them to trade for Iginla, let alone give up one of their cornerstone players of the future. Hell, Coutourier is even younger than Baertschi (by a few months).

Besides, why on earth would you do that as a flames fan when you're talking about picking a player in the draft in the same area where Couturier himself was picked?

Just get your own goddamned players, and quit coveting those of other organizations. It's lazy.

The entire conversation starts and ends with that sentence.

The Flames currently sit 26th in the league standings. It is becoming increasingly likely that their draft pick will be a player at least as good as Couturier (I would rather have any of the big 3 than him straight up)

And the Flamse don't have to give anything up to get it

[Badgers Nose]

It would be great if the flames would trade away bit players to a contenders looking for depth for young prospects developed in a winning system. It seems the last few years the flames go after players from losing systems. And I don't think that's how to build a contender.

Guys like Glencross and Jokinen could have fetched the team some excellent picks. Perhaps this year guys like Stempniak and others could bring the flames some of these much-needed draft picks.

There are not many guys available that can make an immediate impact. And those that are available would be coming from teams with losing records. It might fill some holes but long-term I'm not sure what that accomplishes. Look at how long it took for Jay to bring some compete to his game. The flames give up Leopold and a whole Lotta money to get that.

[Badgers Nose]

I guess my point is that these "proven players" that feaster keeps going after also come with proven bad habits. A young player may have the same skill and none of those bad habits. You wouldn't want your new young players learning those bad habits from lazy old veterans that came from losing systems.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The entire conversation starts and ends with that sentence.

The Flames currently sit 26th in the league standings. It is becoming increasingly likely that their draft pick will be a player at least as good as Couturier (I would rather have any of the big 3 than him straight up)

And the Flamse don't have to give anything up to get it

That's what I'm hoping for and what I think a lot of people are hoping for. They can take a Couturier this year if they are willing to wait the 2 or 3 years it takes the player to develop. I'm not sure if they'll do that though.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by nik-

That's what I'm hoping for and what I think a lot of people are hoping for. They can take a Couturier this year if they are willing to wait the 2 or 3 years it takes the player to develop. I'm not sure if they'll do that though.

It's amazing, really.

It would be mind-numbingly stupid... off-the-charts, Millbury-esque, worst-run-franchise-ever stupid.

And yet we all sit here and wait for it to happen because it just seems inevitable.

It truly is challenging to be optimistic these days.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It's amazing, really.

It would be mind-numbingly stupid... off-the-charts, Millbury-esque, worst-run-franchise-ever stupid.

And yet we all sit here and wait for it to happen because it just seems inevitable.

It truly is challenging to be optimistic these days.

I fully believe the 1st is on the table, and it makes me sad. I hope I'm wrong.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The package they got for Carter was two top ten picks and a third rounder. two players over 6'3 and over 200 lbs, one now scoring more than a point per game and the other perhaps the best young defensive centre in hockey. Iginla and Baertschi doesn't come close to matching that return, Iginla, Baertschi and 1 top ten pick (our first) is coming close.

Are you counting Voracek as a top 10 pick? If you consider Iginla > Vorachek and Baertschi as = #8 pick, that's rather close. But of course it doesn't always work out that way. Vorachek is no Iginla but he's young and years from UFA. Baertschi has potential and years closer to being NHL ready. Really depends on what a GM is looking for.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by FAN

Are you counting Voracek as a top 10 pick? If you consider Iginla > Vorachek and Baertschi as = #8 pick, that's rather close. But of course it doesn't always work out that way. Vorachek is no Iginla but he's young and years from UFA. Baertschi has potential and years closer to being NHL ready. Really depends on what a GM is looking for.

Voracek is already playing better than Iginla. He's just hitting his prime.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by nik-

That's what I'm hoping for and what I think a lot of people are hoping for. They can take a Couturier this year if they are willing to wait the 2 or 3 years it takes the player to develop. I'm not sure if they'll do that though.

It's also puzzling because of how quickly UFA status can come when you trade for a guy who's been in the league since he was 18. O'Reilly's still quite young at 22, but he's going to be a UFA at 25. That doesn't mean he'll walk, but it can have a pretty big impact on his asking price and gives him the option to move on if he wants.

If you draft your own guy you've got 7-9 years until he hits UFA status depending on when you bring him into the league and you tend to get a more loyal player.

[Brick]

I wonder if Detroit would give up one of their young centers for Giordano?

[FAN]

Originally Posted by zamler

As far as I can tell, the mandate from the head office is still "win now" mode. People are quick to blame Feaster (as they were Darryl Sutter) but to me it is very clear by now that the general managers decisions are strongly guided by ownership.

Can we blame the guy who talked about intellectual honesty for being intellectually dishonest?

[FAN]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Voracek is already playing better than Iginla. He's just hitting his prime.

That's irrelevant. We were talking about the return for Carter at the time. Iginla today > Voracek at the time of the trade. Besides, I think it's highly debatable as to whether Voracek's trade value today would be higher than Iginla's. I think Iginla's trade value is higher given his pedigree.

[vilzeh]

Originally Posted by Sakari

I probably should have used green text, lol.

No, nice try though. No one posts the same quote twice as a joke.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Brick

I wonder if Detroit would give up one of their young centers for Giordano?

Which one? They are thin at C with Helm down

Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Abdelkater
Emmerton
Sheahan

They have Jarnkrok in Sweden but he wouldn't be available until next season. He'd be the guy imo.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by FAN

That's irrelevant. We were talking about the return for Carter at the time. Iginla today > Voracek at the time of the trade. Besides, I think it's highly debatable as to whether Voracek's trade value today would be higher than Iginla's. I think Iginla's trade value is higher given his pedigree.

That is delusional.