Election's Canada investigating "Robocall" Guelph Riding (and other ridings).

[Jacks]

I agree, it's not as big deal but they are hardly "allegations", the Liberals have admitted to it. While not as egregious it's still a breach of elections law.

If the Conservatives are guilty of the misleading calls then they deserve to be punished. I doubt the party is behind it though. The Conservatives play tough but they aren't morons, this whole affair seems like the work of someone who wasn't thinking ahead as to the consequences. We'll see I guess.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by old-fart

Interesting that in the CBC piece they don't talk to a single conservative who also received a call directing them to the wrong polling station. And yes, that did happen and has been reported. So is it Milewski's contention that ONLY non-Conservatives got calls, because that's blatantly not true. Of course, the CBC and specifically Terry Milewski and known to be hostile to the Conservatives and have been for decades.

Why don't we all just wait for the actual investigation to complete, and then hang all the guilty parties? If the Cons were behind it, whoever was behind it needs to be punished severely. If it was someone else, so do they.

As for the other documented cases of Election Fraud that Capt. Crunch has brought up above, they also should be punished harshly.

So you asked for examples of where Del Mastro and Harper blamed the Liberals and I provided them, do you have reported examples of where Conservatives were told to go to the wrong polling station? Just curious.

The Pepper industry and Jean Chretien might question your assertion that Milewski has always been against the Conservatives, but that is just a hunch.

[c.t.ner]

Originally Posted by Jacks

We don't even know who is behind the calls yet. If you set the precedent that a by-election be called any time there is suspected illegal activity you would have constant by-elections, your candidate lost? don't worry, all you have to do is claim that you got robocalled and bingo, new election!

I didn't say that a by-election should be held because there are allegations. I said that I think a by-election should be held if election fraud was found to have occurred. (see below from my previous posts)

I personally don't think that the entire election should be overturned (and I don't think that is even legally possible), but any riding where election fraud and attempts to specifically deter any citizen to vote are found to have occurred should hold by-elections again.

I know personally, if Party X in my riding was intentionally misleading Party Y and Party Z's voters in the manner that has been brought up (posing as Elections Canada in a misleading way) and I had voted for Party X in that election, I would want to have an opportunity to recast my vote. And I think many people would share the same sentiments.

[Tinordi]

Modern politics is so depressing with this sports fan ethic of people "cheering" their team/party beyond logic or critical thinking. Talking politics on this board is the quintessential example of this ethic at work.

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by EdWard

So you asked for examples of where Del Mastro and Harper blamed the Liberals and I provided them, do you have reported examples of where Conservatives were told to go to the wrong polling station? Just curious.

The Pepper industry and Jean Chretien might question your assertion that Milewski has always been against the Conservatives, but that is just a hunch.

http://crux-of-the-matter.com/2012/0...substantiated/

And the quotes you provided from DDM were pretty damaging to be sure. I've never really liked that guy and nothing he's really done through the course of this hoo-ha has changed that. Having said that, DDM was clearly wrong that the Liberals used that particular US based firm with the same name as the Canadian based firm. He wasn't wrong that the Liberals (and NDP and Greenies for that matter) made use of Robocalls, as well as calls from call centers and volunteers during the election campaign.

Again, there are many things at play here. The most important is obviously the robocalls that were intentionally misdirecting voters to the wrong polling location. Those are very bad, illegal, and anyone involved should be punished. It is my belief that these are likely a very small number, and probably targeted in one riding with perhaps some spillover if someone wasn't too careful about the calling list used.

Then there were legitimate calls made by probably all parties trying to get out their vote. Some of those may have inadvertently misdirected voters (humans make mistakes) but I don't believe they were intentional or malicious.

Next most egregious, and illegal, is the robocalls pretending to be a fictitious person and not identifying the political party that paid for the call while attempting to suppress your opponents vote. These are absolutely illegal and should be looked at closely as well.

Then there were the harassing phone calls, the lying about your opponents position on things, the supposed "pretending to be the other campaign" and being rude, or calling at dinnertime complaints. There is nothing to substantiate anything here.

That doesn't even touch on the vandalism of signs, the stealing of campaign material from the mailboxes at the door, the dead donors of funds to get around campaign financing rules, etc.

Bottom line, politics in this country is a mess - and it makes me sad.

[Fire]

I would find it hilarious if they had a by-election in Guelph and the Conservatives won.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Modern politics is so depressing with this sports fan ethic of people "cheering" their team/party beyond logic or critical thinking. Talking politics on this board is the quintessential example of this ethic at work.

I think of these threads just like that.

Its like a GT, but spread over a few weeks/months. The US political discussion thread is a prime example. Train wreck after train wreck, either its the candidates or the people discussing them going off the deep end like they have suffered a psychotic break. I don't think I could care less about who wins the Republican nomination, but I never miss that thread.

[c.t.ner]

Robocalls probe extends to Tory headquarters

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Ro...552/story.html

Nearly a year after the investigation began, the agency is trying to determine why database records provided by the party appear to be missing entries that could help identify who downloaded the phone numbers used to make fraudulent robocalls, according to a source familiar with the probe.

Investigators also are inquiring about a phone call from Conservative headquarters, made the day before the election, to RackNine, the Edmonton voice-broadcasting company whose servers were used to send out the robocalls.

[Slava]

Wow. That is a big revelation and could mean big trouble for the CPC.

[RedHot25]

From the same article: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Ro...552/story.html
The investigators have inquired about CIMS logs for one particular user in the party's headquarters. The logs show blanks between this person's CIMS logon and logoff on the day the Guelph data was accessed, according to the source.

Also of interest is a call to RackNine made on May 1, the day before the vote, from a number in the Conservative party war room in Ottawa.

The number is listed as belonging to Chris Rougier, who was identified as the party's manager of voter relation programs. It usually rings on his desk at party headquarters on Albert Street in downtown Ottawa, but was forwarded to the party's south Ottawa war room for the duration of the campaign.

Rougier was a key member of the target seat team, working directly under campaign manager Jenni Byrne, acting as a liaison with vendors providing telephone services to the campaign.

There is no indication Rougier was involved in the Poutine scheme, only that Mathews was inquiring why his phone line would be used by someone to place a call to RackNine.

[MarchHare]

Did the CPC (either the national HQ or other individual candidates) make legitimate use of RackNine's services other than the phony Pierre Poutine? If so, there's nothing particularly incriminating about a call to RackNine coming from the Conservative war room the day before the election.

[RedHot25]

Yeah MarchHare, I agree. The article references other calls. I just find it weird that they are focusing on this call in particular?

There is no indication Rougier was involved in the Poutine scheme, only that Mathews was inquiring why his phone line would be used by someone to place a call to RackNine.

Other calls — from the offices of Conservative MPs Chris Warkentin and Julian Fantino — were made to the same line to record robocalls promoting events or to get out the vote.

The call from Rougier's phone to RackNine is the only one the party has failed to explain in detail to reporters, in spite of repeated requests.

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Ro...#ixzz1sG1aZSVG

[Senator Clay Davis]

The only thing working to the CPC's advantage is time. A lot of time between now and 2015, and sadly voters do tend to have short memories. I saw today that Chretien is suggesting an NDP-Liberal merger, which while admitedly tricky to actually iron out, would obviously offer the best chance to defeat the Conservatives.

[EddyBeers]

http://www.canadians.org/election/do...G-00415825.PDF

This is a shocking affidavit, what was Harper's telemarketing company doing for the three days before the election? Calling Canadians telling them to vote an hour away from their polling station? These are extremely odd calls to make. To have a RMG employee come out with these allegations is shocking. I wonder where all the angry "Dion's coalition is an afront to democracy" posters are these days, I would hate to think democracy only matters under certain ficticious circumstances where one does not understand the Canadian Parliamentary system.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

http://www.canadians.org/election/do...G-00415825.PDF

This is a shocking affidavit, what was Harper's telemarketing company doing for the three days before the election? Calling Canadians telling them to vote an hour away from their polling station? These are extremely odd calls to make. To have a RMG employee come out with these allegations is shocking. I wonder where all the angry "Dion's coalition is an afront to democracy" posters are these days, I would hate to think democracy only matters under certain ficticious circumstances where one does not understand the Canadian Parliamentary system.

That's incredibly damning.

Is there any way to verify that the affidavit is genuine?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

http://www.canadians.org/election/do...G-00415825.PDF

This is a shocking affidavit, what was Harper's telemarketing company doing for the three days before the election? Calling Canadians telling them to vote an hour away from their polling station? These are extremely odd calls to make. To have a RMG employee come out with these allegations is shocking. I wonder where all the angry "Dion's coalition is an afront to democracy" posters are these days, I would hate to think democracy only matters under certain ficticious circumstances where one does not understand the Canadian Parliamentary system.

Wow. That is just shocking and completely damning allegations. I agree that voters have short memories, but Elections Canada will have some serious consequences if they're found to be legitimate and frankly that will not turn out well for the CPC.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

That's incredibly damning.

Is there any way to verify that the affidavit is genuine?

It is on the Council of Canadians website http://www.canadians.org/media/other...18-Apr-12.html

To paraphrase Teri Hatcher from her Seinfeld appearance "It's real and it's spectacular".

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

It is on the Council of Canadians website http://www.canadians.org/media/other...18-Apr-12.html

To paraphrase Teri Hatcher from her Seinfeld appearance "It's real and it's spectacular".

CTV and Global have both picked up the story:

http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loca...hub=OttawaHome

http://www.globalnews.ca/entertainme...673/story.html

[Blaster86]

Whoops...

[CaptainCrunch]

someones got some splainin to do.

We do have to really know who ordered the calls now.