I wish this story would just die. Who cares? CBC leads with it every night on The National. There must be something more important going on in Canada and the world.
I wish this story would just die. Who cares? CBC leads with it every night on The National. There must be something more important going on in Canada and the world.
I really wish there was an unthanks button. The absolute last thing Canada needs is for this to go away and for apathy for the basic fundamentals of the democratic process in this country to grow. It's embarrassing that Canadians can just shrug off legitimate allegations of voter fraud as "who cares".
They CBC will use every means possible to keep this thing alive. I would like to be a Conservative MP and sponsor the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation Repeal Act, 2012 (Canada).
They CBC will use every means possible to keep this thing alive. I would like to be a Conservative MP and sponsor the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation Repeal Act, 2012 (Canada).
So you're okay that our Prime Minister may not even be the elected leader of this country? This entire election could be bunk... At the very least the affected ridings should have a re-election.
So you're okay that our Prime Minister may not even be the elected leader of this country?
That's a stretch.
The misleading calls are totally unacceptable and whoever is responsible should be punished. At this point we don't yet know who is responsible so there is little point jumping to conclusions. There are about 700 complaints which seem to be mainly affecting Guelph. If you think we should have a byelection in Guelph? Sure. If you think we should have a whole new election, not likely.
^^^ This. My point is that the story has been and continues to be made out to be much bigger than need be. The CBC is devoting too many resources, launching its own investigation in pursuit of its agenda to discredit the Conservatives on every occassion possible.
So you're okay that our Prime Minister may not even be the elected leader of this country? This entire election could be bunk... At the very least the affected ridings should have a re-election.
Of course! We need to make sure that the votes of every idiot who answers phone calls from a unknown source and then proceeds to obey what they're told is counted! Apparently the liberal party depends on these idiots to get elected.
Claiming the entire election is bunk is ludicrous.
Of course! We need to make sure that the votes of every idiot who answers phone calls from a unknown source and then proceeds to obey what they're told is counted! Apparently the liberal party depends on these idiots to get elected.
Again, it's important that every eligible citizen gets the chance to vote and is in no way impeded in their ability, especially by a political party. Basic fundamentals of western democracy.
It doesn't matter if you personally think that a particular voter is an idiot, a "liberal" or "too dumb" to distinguish a "legitimate sounding call from Elections Canada in a completely plausible situation". (Again, not sure how many times this needs to be reiterated in this thread, but this wasn't Peggy from Capital One customer service calling voters on election day.)
I personally don't think that the entire election should be overturned (and I don't think that is even legally possible), but any riding where election fraud and attempts to specifically deter any citizen to vote are found to have occurred should hold by-elections again.
but any riding where election fraud and attempts to specifically deter any citizen to vote are found to have occurred should hold by-elections again.
Any riding?
Including the ones that Liberals/NDP won?
Didn't think so.
There still is not one single person who is reporting that they were unable to vote due to these calls. I'm sure if they had found that one person yet the CBC would have a full news team parked on their driveway.
Any riding?
Including the ones that Liberals/NDP won?
Didn't think so.
Of course. I don't look at this along party lines. If I recall, in the end the Guelph riding in question was won handily by the Liberal incumbent.
But at the time of the election, when the calls occured nobody knew for certain what the outcome would be. By saying that the after the fact the calls "didn't matter" and we shouldn't bother with any electoral recourse, you're setting a precedent for future elections. A blanketed heavy handed punishment would do more in the future to prevent this from happening again, then a half-hearted response.
But a punishment for who? Who are you trying to punish?
We don't even know who is behind the calls yet. If you set the precedent that a by-election be called any time there is suspected illegal activity you would have constant by-elections, your candidate lost? don't worry, all you have to do is claim that you got robocalled and bingo, new election!
I can guarantee you that the Libs and NDP will NOT support by-elections in the ridings that they won.
I never said that the calls "didn't matter" and whoever is guilty should face criminal charges. Until we know who to charge you'll have to put the noose away.
Sounds like they hung up and still voted at the correct place. So why would you need a re-election?
I was just illustrating that the Conservatives are most likely behind it. Also according to Elections Canada(sorry if Fata):
524. (1) Any elector who was eligible to vote in an electoral district, and any candidate in an electoral district, may, by application to a competent court, contest the election in that electoral district on the grounds that
(a) under section 65 the elected candidate was not eligible to be a candidate; or
(b) there were irregularities, fraud or corrupt or illegal practices that affected the result of the election.
One could argue that these robo-calls affected the results of the election. Remember the Cons won by the narrowest of margins. If Elections Canada finds out who was behind the "dirty tricks" the election can be contested. And before I forget... http://elections.ca/content.aspx?sec...&lang=e#sec524
Last edited by Canuck-Hater; 03-18-2012 at 10:11 PM.
I was just illustrating that the Conservatives are most likely behind it. Also according to Elections Canada(sorry if Fata):
524. (1) Any elector who was eligible to vote in an electoral district, and any candidate in an electoral district, may, by application to a competent court, contest the election in that electoral district on the grounds that
(a) under section 65 the elected candidate was not eligible to be a candidate; or
(b) there were irregularities, fraud or corrupt or illegal practices that affected the result of the election.
One could argue that these robo-calls affected the results of the election. Remember the Cons won by the narrowest of margins. If Elections Canada finds out who was behind the "dirty tricks" the election can be contested. And before I forget... http://elections.ca/content.aspx?sec...&lang=e#sec524
Thank god your not a judge.
You'd find the defendant guilty before the police investigation was complete.
I see that you haven't bought up the allegations of other parties bringing in people that didn't have proper id's to vote, and the Liberal members use of robocaling to smear a conservative candidate while breaking key election canada rules.
I think that until we actually hear from elections canada that the CONSERVATIVE PARTY was behind this as part of their election strategy your jumping the gun based on your political ideals.
Hey there's no shame in it, I'm guilty of it at times.
But at least be honest about it. If Harper saved a cat from a tree, you'd probably be screaming that Harper was only doing it so that he could sacrifice the cat to Satan later.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
You'd find the defendant guilty before the police investigation was complete.
I see that you haven't bought up the allegations of other parties bringing in people that didn't have proper id's to vote, and the Liberal members use of robocaling to smear a conservative candidate while breaking key election canada rules.
I think that until we actually hear from elections canada that the CONSERVATIVE PARTY was behind this as part of their election strategy your jumping the gun based on your political ideals.
Hey there's no shame in it, I'm guilty of it at times.
But at least be honest about it. If Harper saved a cat from a tree, you'd probably be screaming that Harper was only doing it so that he could sacrifice the cat to Satan later.
Any link on those allegations? The only riding I saw with that comment was Joe Oliver and there were. A couple thousand improperly registered voters. Thats shady, and I think even the staunchest partisan of any party would expect that is reviewed.
The allegation that a Liberal "smeared" a CPC candidate and failed to properly identify themselves (I think thats what you are referring to?) is just grasping at straws to try to deflect from the obvious concern. Someone called people and represented themselves as Elections Canada to misdirect them. It was clearly a planned maneuver with a fake name, and voters information used to do this. It appears to have targeted voters who told the CPC that they weren't voting for them. Given that I jump to the wild conclusion that the evidence points directly to: CPC people are behind this.
Then you pile on allegations regarding funding improprieties and another "in and out" scheme. Pretty clearly Elections Canada should be investigating this fully. I don't think that the election was "stolen" or "a false victory" or anything like that. I don't necessarily think that there should be byelections either. I do think that one party has a track record and mounting evidence against it though and if that all turns out as it appears at this point they should have the book thrown at them.
The allegation that a Liberal "smeared" a CPC candidate and failed to properly identify themselves (I think thats what you are referring to?) is just grasping at straws
The recorded message – circulated to the media by Conservatives Friday – attacked Guelph Tory candidate Marty Burke as anti-choice.
Quote:
he ad does not mention it was funded by the Liberal campaign for Frank Valeriote. Mr. Valeriote acknowledged the anti-Burke robo-call should have identified it was funded by his campaign.
Interesting that in the CBC piece they don't talk to a single conservative who also received a call directing them to the wrong polling station. And yes, that did happen and has been reported. So is it Milewski's contention that ONLY non-Conservatives got calls, because that's blatantly not true. Of course, the CBC and specifically Terry Milewski and known to be hostile to the Conservatives and have been for decades.
Why don't we all just wait for the actual investigation to complete, and then hang all the guilty parties? If the Cons were behind it, whoever was behind it needs to be punished severely. If it was someone else, so do they.
As for the other documented cases of Election Fraud that Capt. Crunch has brought up above, they also should be punished harshly.
Ya, that is hardly a major issue. Someone pretending to be from Elections Canada and trying to have people not get the right to vote is far more egregious. I'm not saying this should go unpunished/investigated, but its really not in the same league as out and out fraud.
