[News] New Arena - Plan B - Victoria Park

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by RM14

This situation is different than Islanders moving a couple counties over to Brooklyn. The fee for moving the Thrasher to Winnipeg involved a relocation fee. And recently, the NHL was fishing for a $500 million dollar expansion fee from Quebec. I can't see the NHL letting the Flames move to Quebec (or anywhere) for less than a few hundred million. Which is likely enough for the Flames to put into a new arena anyways. Another situation is the Flames owners sell to Quebec for net worth. But doesn't Gary Betman make sure to source for local owners before letting other cities come in? I think there a few wealthy people in Calgary who would buy the team first and then do what they had to do to get an arena built.

But in any case, I don't take Brian Burke very seriously at these events.

Nonsense. There is nobody that would purchase a small market Canadian team at market value and then put up their own money to build an arena as that's as poor an investment as you could make and most of these people didn't get rich by making poor decisions. You aren't going to find many potential owners that would be satisfied with the current situation of owning a small market team in the oldest arena in the league (Madison Square Garden doesn't count). The people that buy these teams could find much, much more profitable ways to spend their money so you would have to find an extremely rich person that's willing to spend market value for the team and then fork over another $500 million for a new arena. Those type of billionaires are few and far between in NHL circles as those types of guys are more interested in the NFL and even at that NFL owners don't want to spend on their own stadiums.

It really is the reality that Flames owners really could find more lucrative ways to invest their money but they have decided to not only make the Flames a viable local business but also secure the Stampeders, Hitmen, and Roughnecks ensuring stable ownership for all Calgary sports franchises. It's not a right of Calgarians that they keep the team here or choose to own the team as they could sell to any number of goofball American millionaires that we have seen crash and burn with other franchises. Flames ownership is pretty respected in ownership circles so you can bet that any decisions they make will get full support from Bettman and Co.

I do agree with you about the Burke comment as I'm surprised so many fans are taking his comments seriously and running with it but that's kind of the way things work today on the internet.

[Coach]

If the Flames want to move because they want the city to pay for their rink then so be it. I'll be happily flipping them the bird as they leave.

[SofaProfessor]

Don't the owners also have to vote to approve a relocation? In a revenue sharing league that may be easier said than done. Do owners want to move a team that contributes to revenue sharing to a location that could potentially make them a team that consumes revenue sharing?

Anyway, all this talk is basically public price haggling and it's somewhat early in the process when you consider a project of its size and scope. Everyone is holding their position and we will eventually see them meet somewhere in the middle like every normal person expects and pretend like all of this never happened.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Locke

No. Because even with the oldest arena in the League the Calgary Flames are among the top 10 most profitable Franchises in the League.

At the end of the day though, there will be a new arena, I dont think theres any doubt there, at the moment its a just a tug-of-war match about 'who will pay how much.'

Thats the thing. Where could they go and make more money? Even with an antique rink?

Go to Quebec or Seattle. Maybe make ten million dollars less a year.

Stay in Calgary, spend ~$700 million on an arena completely private. Burke will be dead before they break even staying in Calgary.

It's an easy business decision. Either city forks up money or they'll leave.

[RM14]

Imagine the irony of Quebec stealing the Flames from Alberta after years and years of receiving provincial equalization payments to support their have not status and tax burdens. The same pool of funds in which they used to build a 100% taxpayer funded new arena for themselves in Quebec city.

[Ashasx]

[Par]

Originally Posted by RM14

Imagine the irony of Quebec stealing the Flames from Alberta after years and years of receiving provincial equalization payments to support their have not status and tax burdens. The same pool of funds in which they used to build a 100% taxpayer funded new arena for themselves in Quebec city.

I see the dam irony there, Quebec is a burden on Canada and Alberta, I always wonder what is the point of having Quebec as Province, it is just a waste and resource sucking place.

[flambers]

Calgary will offer public funds, this is nothing but a negotiation tactic by both sides....

if the team ever left, I would bet the City would end up building an facility using 100% public funds...

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by RM14

Imagine the irony of Quebec stealing the Flames from Alberta after years and years of receiving provincial equalization payments to support their have not status and tax burdens.

You don't know how equalization payments work.

Regardless, Burke is loudmouthed blowhard, He's the PoHO he should probably stick to that topic and let King (who I'll grant isn't much better) field the arena questions/Speeches.

[Par]

Originally Posted by Parallex

You don't know how equalization payments work.

Tell us, how they work Sherlock?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by flambers

Calgary will offer public funds, this is nothing but a negotiation tactic by both sides....

if the team ever left, I would bet the City would end up building an facility using 100% public funds...

The optics of that would be pretty horrible. And the NHL wouldn't move a team here to be a mere building tenant.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Locke

No. Because even with the oldest arena in the League the Calgary Flames are among the top 10 most profitable Franchises in the League.

At the end of the day though, there will be a new arena, I dont think theres any doubt there, at the moment its a just a tug-of-war match about 'who will pay how much.'

Thats the thing. Where could they go and make more money? Even with an antique rink?

I agree that tomorrow, next year, or even 3 years this is a non issue for the NHL and the Calgary Flames. Where it starts to become an issue is if in 10 years they aren't among the top half of the league and are still in the dome with no plans of a new arena then why wouldn't they consider options?

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I agree that tomorrow, next year, or even 3 years this is a non issue for the NHL and the Calgary Flames. Where it starts to become an issue is if in 10 years they aren't among the top half of the league and are still in the dome with no plans of a new arena then why wouldn't they consider options?

If they don't have shovels in the ground in 2 or 3 years they will probably start looking elsewhere.

I'm optimistic they'll be starting next year though.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Table 5

For me, comments like Burkes made it easier for me to say no to sharing tickets this year.

Outside of loyalty rooted in childhood memories, and Treliving, there's honestly not a ton I really like about the Flames as an organization these days. They used to just be incompetent... but these days they also come across as greedy and arrogant. Not sure if it was the difference between a Hotchkiss-led group and an Edwards-led one, but they definitely don't come across as likeable.

Great post, sums up my feelings.

Been a loyal fan for decades, family held seasons, own a bunch of jerseys etc.

Never been as ambivalent about the organization as I am now, while my interest in hockey other than the flames has never been higher.

This process has been a huge, huge turnoff.

[GordonBlue]

just think it's funny, all the wind the flames used to tell everyone that they'd do things differently than the oilers did.
so far it seems to be pretty well the same playbook.

it going to work. the people on city council likely care more about getting reelected than they do about saving the taxpayer a few dollars.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Parallex

You don't know how equalization payments work.

Regardless, Burke is loudmouthed blowhard, He's the PoHO he should probably stick to that topic and let King (who I'll grant isn't much better) field the arena questions.

No, I don't know the granular details. But! How can Quebec and Quebec City afford to build a state of the art arena for $500 million? That money should have gone to shoring up other public expenses that do impact the 11 Billion in equalization they received this year...

[flambers]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The optics of that would be pretty horrible. And the NHL wouldn't move a team here to be a mere building tenant.

Yet look at the situation in Winnipeg and Quebec...

Both Cities lost teams

Both Cities built new arenas after the team left....

One of them has a team.....

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Nonsense. There is nobody that would purchase a small market Canadian team at market value and then put up their own money to build an arena as that's as poor an investment as you could make and most of these people didn't get rich by making poor decisions. You aren't going to find many potential owners that would be satisfied with the current situation of owning a small market team in the oldest arena in the league (Madison Square Garden doesn't count). The people that buy these teams could find much, much more profitable ways to spend their money so you would have to find an extremely rich person that's willing to spend market value for the team and then fork over another $500 million for a new arena. Those type of billionaires are few and far between in NHL circles as those types of guys are more interested in the NFL and even at that NFL owners don't want to spend on their own stadiums.

It really is the reality that Flames owners really could find more lucrative ways to invest their money but they have decided to not only make the Flames a viable local business but also secure the Stampeders, Hitmen, and Roughnecks ensuring stable ownership for all Calgary sports franchises. It's not a right of Calgarians that they keep the team here or choose to own the team as they could sell to any number of goofball American millionaires that we have seen crash and burn with other franchises. Flames ownership is pretty respected in ownership circles so you can bet that any decisions they make will get full support from Bettman and Co.

I do agree with you about the Burke comment as I'm surprised so many fans are taking his comments seriously and running with it but that's kind of the way things work today on the internet.

Two other NHL teams are owned by Calgarians. Both are in smaller/less profitable locations.

I am pretty sure Calgary has enough people who would be interested in purchasing the Flames if Edwards and Co wanted out

In terms of the business decision. Yes, of course it is. But if your business requires a large capital investment that it cannot afford to provide, that business needs to re-think how it operates. you raise prices or cut costs. It's that simple.

[Flash Walken]

Can anyone provide some context into this season ticket hold meeting?

Is burke just up there by himself fielding questions? Is this a panel?

[troutman]

If Facebook is any indication, many long-time fans don't care anymore if the Flames leave.