[POLL] Calgary Flames coaching change mega-thread—with poll

[kukkudo]

I would be okay with Peters if this was two years ago, now that the Gulutzan experiment failed I don't want to see that that again. Just hire AV if he wants to come here, if he doesn't just wait it out and see who gets fired during the playoffs.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I am seriously posing that question to the 8 voters.

I did not vote, and I have my doubts about Peters, but here are some things that I think bode well for his candidacy:

· 2005–08: took the Spokane Chiefs in his first three years as a head coach from out of the playoffs to the WHL championship and the Memorial Cup.
· 2008–10: led the Rockford Icehogs to two straight 40-win seasons, and then in 2011 had a winning record with the youngest team in the AHL.
· 2016: coached Team Canada to a World Championship, and was then added the coaching staff of Canada's World Cup team along side of Joel Quenneville, Barry Trotz, and Claude Julien.
· After his tenure in the WHL and the AHL his teams either performed worse, or they flat-lined under new coaches.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I did not vote, and I have my doubts about Peters, but here are some things that I think bode well for his candidacy:

· 2005–08: took the Spokane Chiefs in his first three years as a head coach from out of the playoffs to the WHL championship and the Memorial Cup.
· 2008–10: led the Rockford Icehogs to two straight 40-win seasons, and then in 2011 had a winning record with the youngest team in the AHL.
· 2016: coached Team Canada to a World Championship, and was then added the coaching staff of Canada's World Cup team along side of Joel Quenneville, Barry Trotz, and Claude Julien.
· After his tenure in the WHL and the AHL his teams either performed worse, or they flat-lined.

Seems to me this group of players needs a proven winner to rally around, or at least that's my view from thousands of miles away. Would Peters fit that bill?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

No I'm not "basically" arguing that.

I'm saying that IMO AV is an overall better coach than Sutter and I would pick him first.

The other thing I'm arguing is that the more points your team has the more likely you are to actually win the Stanley Cup, but that's not really as much of an argument as it is just a plain fact.

Obviously better teams are going to have better regular season records. And better teams have a higher chance of winning the cup. That is all straight-forward and obvious.

But you are arguing that regular season records are how we should judge coaches. I think that is wrong. I am far more impressed with a guy like Sutter, whose playoff winning percentage is substantially higher than his regular season winning percentage, than I am with coaches that keep winning division titles with great teams, but don't win in the playoffs.

It's playoffs that matter. Period.

[Royle9]

I'll echo another poster's thoughts here, I think Calgary's already got their guy we're just waiting for an announcement at this point. I don't see them firing GG without having a surefire NHL caliber candidate already lined up.

May or may not be a good thing.

[SuperMatt18]

Damnit now I really want the Wild to make the mistake of firing Boudreau.

The guys team's are always elite, no matter the team.

08/09: Washington (First Full Season): 108 Pts (4th), PP - 2nd, PK - 18th
10/11: Washington (Last Full Season): 107 Pts (2nd), PP - 16th, PK - 2nd

12/13: Anaheim (First Full Season): 66 pts (3rd), PP- 4th, PK -14th
15/16: Anaheim (Last Full Season): 103 pts (7th), PP-1st, PK- 1st

Then if you look at his last two seasons in Minnesota combined:

16-18: Minnestota (Two Seasons): 207 pts (5th), PP- 10th, PK - 9th

The guy has teams that are consistently top 10 in the league, always over 100 points, and always seem to finish top 10 in the PP and PK.

Honestly GMs keep scapegoating him as the reason those teams lose - but really none of Minnesota, Anaheim, or Washington had any better results after he's left either. Seems crazy that the guy keeps getting fired the season after leading his team to a top 10 type finish. I'm honestly worries that he gets fired and the Oilers potentially make a good decision for once and go get him.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Seems to me this group of players needs a proven winner to rally around, or at least that's my view from thousands of miles away. Would Peters fit that bill?

I guess it depends on what you believe a "proven winner" is. Peters has won before. He has championships, Cups and gold medals—just none at the NHL level.

So, is he a "proven winner"? You tell me.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I guess it depends on what you believe a "proven winner" is. Peters has won before. He has championships, Cups and gold medals—just none at the NHL level.

So, is he a "proven winner"? You tell me.

Not at the level we care about right now.

[bax]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I am seriously posing that question to the 8 voters.

I'm not one of the voters, but Duhatschek wrote an article for the Athletic today detailing 4 potential coaching fits for the Flames. He had Peters at the top of the list followed by Trotz, Tippett, Vigneault.

His rationale on Peters (summarized):

- Treliving got to know him well at the 2016 WHC where they won a gold medal together. Think they might be philosophically aligned.

-Success with Babcock- carries himself with the same gravitas as Babcock. A force of personality that commands the room.

-Held back by Hurricanes budget and goaltending. 893 save percentage two years ago and .901 this year.

-Underlying possession numbers are good. Carolina didn't take the step as a young team, but he has won at every level and belief within hockey circles is that he can do it in the NHL with the right team

Again- I don't know what the right call is on a new coach- I'm just passing along some information. The point that intrigues me most is the personality that commands the room- seems opposite to Gulutzan.

[transplant99]

Rick Ball just brought up a great example of not judging a guy based strictly on his past.

Mike Sullivan was HC in Boston...went out round 1 and then missed the playoffs in 2 seasons. He then joined Tortorella as an assistant in NY where they missed once and went out in round, round 2 and round 3 in their 4 years there. Then they went to Vancouver for that one meltdown season and missed.

Now? 2 time SC winner and looking pretty good to go deep again.

[tvp2003]

Seriously though, I’m good with anyone who can get this team to play motivated, entertaining hockey.

[ricardodw]

AV never handled a goalie situation:

2006-07 Luongo 76 games
2007-08 Luongo 73 games
2008-09 Luongo 54 games
2009-10 Luongo 63 games
2010-11 Luongo 60 games
2011-12 Luongo 55 games
2012-13 Luongo 20 Schnieder 30 48 game season and AV gets fired.
2013-14 Lundqvist 63
2014-15 Lundqvist 46 Talbot 36
2015-16 Lundqvist 65
2016-17 Lundqvist 57

Sutter had Belfour for 60+ games in Chicago fro 3 years

Veron , Shields and Nabokov for 60+ games in San Jose and the Turek followed by Kipper in Calgary and Quick in LA.

I don't see either of these coaches being happy without a 60+ default goalie .

The big trade will be for a goalie that will start 60 games

[nik-]

seems like the full push has started.

[devo22]

so the sales pitch to the public is in full swing huh? Sigh.

Having to sell a potential hire in the first place is never a good sign.

[CroFlames]

Maybe if the Caps stumble, we bring Hotlby home.

We swindled them that one time for Glencross. Maybe we can do it again.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by devo22

so the sales pitch to the public is in full swing huh? Sigh.

For who?

From who?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I guess it depends on what you believe a "proven winner" is. Peters has won before. He has championships, Cups and gold medals—just none at the NHL level.

So, is he a "proven winner"? You tell me.

Well that is what I asked. If you believe this team doesn't handle pressure well, wouldn't that be important in the next coach?

Will these NHL players be emboldened by junior hockey success? I guess the world championship was with NHL players but then many people seem to dismiss that tournament.

Or is it the message and approach that's important?

It's not just about hiring the best coach necessarily, but the best coach for this team.

[Nelson]

Let’s try to determine the difference Bill Peters would make to the Flames by trying to take out some of the shooting and goaltending differences between the 17-18 Hurricanes and the 17-18 Flames. If we give the Hurricanes and the Flames roster the same S% and SV% in 17-18, what is the difference in goal differential for both teams. This will tell us the difference a Bill Peters system would make compared to a Glen Gulutzan system S% and SV% being equal.

Last season, Carolina’s SV% was .897 in 17-18 (league average .912) on 2358 shots. Last season Carolina had a 8.1 S% (league average 9.2 S%) on 2780 shots. If they had league average S% last season, Carolina would’ve scored 30 additional goals. If they had league average SV%, they would’ve gotten 35 less goals against. Last season Carolina was a -28 team. If they would’ve gotten league average goaltending and shooting percentage, they would’ve been a +37 team.

The Flames turn out 38 (2759 shots for) + 7 (2542 shots against) better and become a +15 team.

This shows that, if you equalize the shooting and goaltending abilities of the 17-18 Hurricanes and the 17-18 Flames to isolate the difference the system makes, Bill Peters system is 22 goals better than Glen Gulutzan’s system.

Another way to look at this is the Hurricanes gave up almost 200 less shots against and got around 20 more shots.

[Fischy13]

Originally Posted by Red

Not sure if I got this right and certainly there are intricate details in all contracts, but does a coach not forfeit their severance when accepting a new job during that year?

From what I've been told, with this final year of his contract being an option (his) year, he can opt out with guaranteed compensation (whats being negotiated). Obviously his leverage is, if he stays they pay the full amount?
This would be over and above what his new team would pay him. This isn't the typical situation you see when a coach gets fired and team pays full salary until he finds new work.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Rick Ball just brought up a great example of not judging a guy based strictly on his past.

Mike Sullivan was HC in Boston...went out round 1 and then missed the playoffs in 2 seasons. He then joined Tortorella as an assistant in NY where they missed once and went out in round, round 2 and round 3 in their 4 years there. Then they went to Vancouver for that one meltdown season and missed.

Now? 2 time SC winner and looking pretty good to go deep again.

If anything it shows how important getting lots of experience at the NHL level is.

I have no doubt that GG will actually be a good HC eventually. He needs 10 more years in the NHL as an assistant though.

It was the same thing with Playfair. Became an NHL HC way too early.