The big fat Greek bailout

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by polak

God, reading #### like that makes me wish they just left it to burn.

Lying to be blind for free handouts. I wonder if people falsely claim to be pedophiles as well for even more additional money.

But hey, don't forget that Greeks are the hardest working and are being put under the thumb of those meanie Germans.

[polak]

Any country that takes a siesta and claims that they're "the hardest working people" in Europe is a joke.

If we can work in the ridiculous winter, you can work in the summer.

[peter12]

Greece is obviously a country that values life to a standard other than productivity. Unfortunately, they also like to reap the benefits of other country's productivity.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by polak

Any country that takes a siesta and claims that they're "the hardest working people" in Europe is a joke.

If we can work in the ridiculous winter, you can work in the summer.

When ever people portray themselves as ethnocentric bigots, they might ask themselves "would I think this was an okay thing to say about some black country, say Nigerians?"

Of course you are mostly just ignorant.

First of all, siestas haven't really been that common in Southern Europe since the invention of air conditioning. Some shops and bars might close, but mostly in areas where there's a distinct lack of customers.

Second, if you do have a siesta, it means you sleep in a different pattern. Some hours in the day, shorter sleep during the night. With a siesta you can for example open a bar at 8 AM and close it at 2 AM and still get enough sleep.

There is nothing that great about working 8+ hours in one go. Nor is there anything inherently great about trying to sleep 8+ hourse in one go. (In fact many people would be better off in a different rhythm regardless of the climate.)

[FlameOn]

Riots starting in Greece. Molotov cocktails being thrown outside the parliament building
http://live.reuters.com/Event/Greek_...is_4/175015616

[EldrickOnIce]

You all are aware that the underground economy in Canada is about $45 billion, right? So about the same percentage per capita as it is in Greece.

It's easy to be self righteous when we ignore our own wrongdoing

[polak]

Originally Posted by Itse

When ever people portray themselves as ethnocentric bigots, they might ask themselves "would I think this was an okay thing to say about some black country, say Nigerians?"

Of course you are mostly just ignorant.

First of all, siestas haven't really been that common in Southern Europe since the invention of air conditioning. Some shops and bars might close, but mostly in areas where there's a distinct lack of customers.

Second, if you do have a siesta, it means you sleep in a different pattern. Some hours in the day, shorter sleep during the night. With a siesta you can for example open a bar at 8 AM and close it at 2 AM and still get enough sleep.

There is nothing that great about working 8+ hours in one go. Nor is there anything inherently great about trying to sleep 8+ hourse in one go. (In fact many people would be better off in a different rhythm regardless of the climate.)

Calling out one of the most problematic nations and cultures in Europe for their working habits is somehow ethnobigotry? It has nothing to do with skin color?

I will concede that after a quick google it turns out you're right about siestas being on the decline. Good. Cause they're annoying as all ####.

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

You all are aware that the underground economy in Canada is about $45 billion, right? So about the same percentage per capita as it is in Greece.

It's easy to be self righteous when we ignore our own wrongdoing

source?

3.5% of GDP for Canada vs. 24% of GDP in Greece.

Canadian numbers:
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/nwsrm/fctsh...50501-eng.html

Greek numbers:
http://www.economist.com/news/financ...isky-treasures

http://www.ekathimerini.com/151816/a...study-suggests

That economist article is pretty damning if true. 2 out 3 Greeks under report or don't report at all.

[carbonrod]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

You all are aware that the underground economy in Canada is about $45 billion, right? So about the same percentage per capita as it is in Greece.

Source?

I see figures where Canada is said to have an underground economy of about 2.2% of GDP:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...article615517/

and Greece having an underground economy of closer to a quarter of its GDP:
http://www.ekathimerini.com/151816/a...study-suggests

[killer_carlson]

I agree however that even 2.2% of GDP in Canada as underground economy is too high.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by polak

source?

3.5% of GDP for Canada vs. 24% of GDP in Greece.

Canadian numbers:
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/nwsrm/fctsh...50501-eng.html

Greek numbers:
http://www.economist.com/news/financ...isky-treasures

http://www.ekathimerini.com/151816/a...study-suggests

That economist article is pretty damning if true. 2 out 3 Greeks under report or don't report at all.

According to your article, the Canadian Underground Economy is stable at ~2.3% of GDP, not 3.5%

Googling around, most articles/studies are claiming the underground/shadow economy of Greece is ~25% of GDP

[EldrickOnIce]

Yes 228
No 64
Obstained 6

[Barnet Flame]

The Greek Parliament have approved the economic package to qualify for the bailout.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by carbonrod

Source?

I see figures where Canada is said to have an underground economy of about 2.2% of GDP:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...article615517/

and Greece having an underground economy of closer to a quarter of its GDP:
http://www.ekathimerini.com/151816/a...study-suggests

The article posted a page back stated 20 billion for Greece, statscan pegged underground economy it at 42.5 billion for Canada.
Google says:
Gdp per capita in Canada 52k
Gdp per capita Greece 22k

I should have checked the 20B from that article. It must be wrong

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

The Greek Parliament have approved the economic package to qualify for the bailout.

It's been fun, see you all in a year or two when we do this all again!

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Itse

When ever people portray themselves as ethnocentric bigots, they might ask themselves "would I think this was an okay thing to say about some black country, say Nigerians?"

Of course you are mostly just ignorant.

First of all, siestas haven't really been that common in Southern Europe since the invention of air conditioning. Some shops and bars might close, but mostly in areas where there's a distinct lack of customers.

Second, if you do have a siesta, it means you sleep in a different pattern. Some hours in the day, shorter sleep during the night. With a siesta you can for example open a bar at 8 AM and close it at 2 AM and still get enough sleep.

There is nothing that great about working 8+ hours in one go. Nor is there anything inherently great about trying to sleep 8+ hourse in one go. (In fact many people would be better off in a different rhythm regardless of the climate.)

The "siesta" in the Balkans is not really the same as the mid-afternoon nap that people picture to begin with. It's long been the case in that region that lunch is the main meal of the day and is meant to be shared with your family. It's not uncommon still (although becoming less common for sure) for businesses to close for a few hours during the day so people can go spend time with their families. But you're right, the working hours are still the same. They typically start the day at like 5am or 6am. Even my cousin who is a school teacher gets to leave midday to spend a couple of hours at home before going back to work. She still puts in 8 hours though.

I think one thing that helps perpetuate the stereotype though is that there is still a resistance to having regimented and predictable hours in small businesses. It's a different lifestyle and isn't easily compatible with central and western Europe and it drives Germans nuts who love order and planning.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The "siesta" in the Balkans is not really the same as the mid-afternoon nap that people picture to begin with. It's long been the case in that region that lunch is the main meal of the day and is meant to be shared with your family. It's not uncommon still (although becoming less common for sure) for businesses to close for a few hours during the day so people can go spend time with their families. But you're right, the working hours are still the same. They typically start the day at like 5am or 6am. Even my cousin who is a school teacher gets to leave midday to spend a couple of hours at home before going back to work. She still puts in 8 hours though.

I think one thing that helps perpetuate the stereotype though is that there is still a resistance to having regimented and predictable hours in small businesses. It's a different lifestyle and isn't easily compatible with central and western Europe and it drives Germans nuts who love order and planning.

Hahahaha. This exactly! If you have ever travelled to Germany and need to nap to catch up, you will always be woke up by hotel service (regardless of sign on door) who insist they clean at the appropriate, scheduled time! As well, a conference in Germany that is scheduled to start at 8 and finish at 5 starts at 7:55 and finishes at 4:45. The same conference in Spain might get going sometime around 9:30 and finish sometime after 7.

[GP_Matt]

I wonder if the Greeks are just investigating German companies out of spite or if this is a great example of companies cheating the system.

German Company is Top Tax Evader in Greece

[calculoso]

@TonyRobbins: Have you been confused by the Greek debt crisis? This analogy should help you understand in 5 minutes: http://tonyr.co/1KgUJNH



For those more familiar with the details, is this a good and accurate analogy?

[Slava]

It's pretty basic, but it's a decent analogy.

[EldrickOnIce]

Talked to an econ prof the other day about this mess.
He has always maintained the entire Eurozone, in it's format, has to fail.

He said Canada is a working version of the EU, so in brief:
Common currency, different economies (provinces).
Provincial governments can run deficits, control their own taxation and spending.
So similar in that respect.

What makes Canada work is the amount of tax dollars that goes to the federal government, and then gets distributed through equalization payments to the provinces. The EU as a central 'governing' agency has neither the resources nor the mandate to operate in this way.

So basically Alberta is Germany and Quebec is Greece, but for equalization.

This explanation made really good sense to me.