Battle of Alberta Part 2: Eskimos at Stampeders - Labour Day Classics

[calgaryrocks]

Originally Posted by T@T

CFL is brutal not because of inferior players but because of brutal rules..that one point for missing a FG is as stupid as giving assists to players in hockey if someone hits a post. There's no strategy, run,pass,kick..repeat if you can!

i disagree, the rules make it unique, and a more exciting game.
as per the field goal argument:

I really don't see the problem with the single point, and I believe this whole issue stems from people not properly understanding the reason for it.

The reason the single point if given is not for kicking the ball through the end zone after missing a FG, it is because the team missed the FG, the ball is still live. If the ball lands in bounds, the defending team has a chance to return the ball out of their end zone. If they do then no point is awarded to the offensive team. therefore, the point is awarded for basically the defending team failing to get the ball out of the end zone.

So if the offensive team is close enough to boot it through the end zone while missing the FG, the point is automatically awarded, not for missing the field goal, but because the defensive team failed to get the ball out of the end zone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed
The single point adds a different element of strategy to the game that would be a real shame to lose. Hey, it sucks that occasionally team get "rewarded" for missing a field goal, but FAR more often, the team is punished by only getting one point instead of three when they miss a field goal. It's not often that those single points decide games, and in all honesty, if you are relying on the other team to miss a short field goal in order for you to win the football game, your team probably doesn't deserve to win the football game.

you can see it as a reward for failure, but I think that is the wrong way to look at it. it rewards the offence for getting close enough to score a field goal and kick into the endzone. it also penalizes the defence for not getting the ball out of the endzone.

the argument can be made that if the defending team doesn't have a chance to return the ball, the offence shouldnt get a point, which is fair. but you have to consider that it is a 20 yard endzone, so if a team is kicking from the 20 and somehow misses (seriously, how often does that happen??), it has to be a 40 yard kick! i have no problem rewarding a 40 yard kick with a point, its a miss, so you are penalizing the kick by 2 points for missing (not rewarding a miss, but penalizing it!).

bottom line is the defence has a chance to return the point, which often happens on long missed field goals....

the other factor is the strategy it adds. without the single, there isnt as much incentive to return the ball out of the endzone in a close game.

from http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...t=69901&page=3

as for the run, pass, kick thing....that is old. same thing can be said for the nfl. ie run, run, run, run, run, run, run, field goal, run, run, run, run, pass, run, punt
anyways they are different games, with different rules. the nfl is more about strategy and coaching. the Cfl is more about thinking on your feet, and making big plays.
i think having only 3 downs creates a need for more urgency to get the 10 yards, and brings the 3rd facet of the game into play more (like it or not), special teams. it is an important part, and it allows a transition between offence and defence, meaning more back and forth between teams. its easier to stop a team from getting 10 yards twice then 3 times, and harder for offence to keep a drive going (good and bad i guess).
less downs means its harder for a team with the lead to run out the clock.

[Chump]

Originally Posted by T@T

CFL is brutal not because of inferior players but because of brutal rules..that one point for missing a FG is as stupid as giving assists to players in hockey if someone hits a post. There's no strategy, run,pass,kick..repeat if you can!

You don't get a point for missing a field goal you get a point for kicking it out of the end zone something that actually rarely happens on missed field goals as the returner generally runs it out of the endzone. What you are saying is basically the same thing as saying its stupid that you get three points for failing to get a touchdown. The multiple ways to score points in football (CFL and NFL) is something different from most sports and one of the things that makes it such a great game.

[The Special One]

Originally Posted by pope04

Run, run, pass, punt is so much better?

If the rouge is silly, what's fair catch?

Don't try to tell me that the CFL doesn't have a fair catch. You're not allowed to go within five yards of the KR before he catches the ball. What do you call that? It would be like not being able to check a player in hockey wearing a special helmet or something.

[moon]

Originally Posted by The Special One

You're not allowed to go within five yards of the KR before he catches the ball. What do you call that?

No yards

[The Special One]

I call it a fair catch on every single punt return.

[moon]

Originally Posted by The Special One

I call it a fair catch on every single punt return.

You can call it whatever you want but that doesn't change the fact that it isn't a fair catch.

[OzSome]

Wow, this thread is starting to become CFL vs NFL again. I thought we are supposed to talk about the Labour Day game. Please if you guys wants to compare the CFL and NFL, create a new thread title "CFL vs NFL" or vice versa. I am sure some people here would like to talk about the game.

Anyways, i can't wait for another Battle of Alberta - Part 3 on Friday night.

GO STAMPS GO!!

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by OzSome

Anyways, i can't wait for another Battle of Alberta - Part 3 on Friday night.

GO STAMPS GO!!

Me too. GO STAMPS GO!

[pope04]

Originally Posted by The Special One

What do you call that?

A more interesting way to play the game.

[pope04]

Originally Posted by The Special One

It would be like not being able to check a player waving his arm around.

Fixed.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by The Special One

Don't try to tell me that the CFL doesn't have a fair catch. You're not allowed to go within five yards of the KR before he catches the ball.

Then you have the NFL's silly fair catch rule simply because some kick returner is afraid of getting hit. Which is a shame actually because a kick or punt return can be one of the most exciting parts of the game of football.

What do you call that? It would be like not being able to check a player in hockey wearing a special helmet or something.

A better rule that forces the returner to run with the ball.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Dion

Then you have the NFL's silly fair catch rule simply because some kick returner is afraid of getting hit. Which is a shame actually because a kick or punt return can be one of the most exciting parts of the game of football.

Actually it's a rule to protect the players, much like penalties for facemasks, horse-collar tackes, etc.

A better rule that forces the returner to run with the ball.

Not true at all. I'd rather a guy go with a fair catch than be rewarded with 5 yards for falling on a ball. Again there's just way more strategy involved with a fair catch.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Actually it's a rule to protect the players, much like penalties for facemasks, horse-collar tackes, etc.

Which is also why the No Yards rule is in place. To protect players from getting killed/paralyzed.

Not true at all. I'd rather a guy go with a fair catch than be rewarded with 5 yards for falling on a ball. Again there's just way more strategy involved with a fair catch.

That there's more strategy in the fair catch is bogus. Sure, the player has to decide whether to catch the ball, or let it bounce, but in the CFL, the player has to decide whether to do the same thing, PLUS, he has to watch for any onside players that don't have to give five yards, who are eligible to recover the ball for the punting team. And that's not to mention the other intricacies that are involved in the CFL game. There is WAY more strategy involved in the CFL special teams, by an order of magnitude, AT LEAST.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Which is also why the No Yards rule is in place. To protect players from getting killed/paralyzed.

Absolutely. My post was directed at the guy who said that NFL returners used the fair catch because they were too scared to run with the ball.

That there's more strategy in the fair catch is bogus. Sure, the player has to decide whether to catch the ball, or let it bounce, but in the CFL, the player has to decide whether to do the same thing, PLUS, he has to watch for any onside players that don't have to give five yards, who are eligible to recover the ball for the punting team. And that's not to mention the other intricacies that are involved in the CFL game. There is WAY more strategy involved in the CFL special teams, by an order of magnitude, AT LEAST.

Why in god's name would a CFL player let a ball bounce? I've never seen a CFL player stay back and let the ball bounce. Most of the time I see them run and fall on the ball to catch the coverage team in the no-yards zone.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by The Special One

Just look at the Stampeder's roster. I'll bet you money without even looking it up that at least 90% of the import players are all from the southern USA, places Kentucky, Louisiana, Georgia, Texas, Arkansas, etc. The reason for this is clear - there's not a whole lot of money to be made living in those states for poorly educated ex-NCAA players, even if they do have BS degrees from community colleges and smaller universities. They come up to Canada and play in the CFL to make some money. There's nothing wrong with this, they're just making an honest living playing a game that they love and providing entertainment to Canadians like me.

Serious offer: you want to bet money on this? Loser pays $20 to Calgarypuck? I'm going to assume that you'll say yes, since you're so confident.

Southern Universities on the Stamps import roster: North Carolina, East Carolina, Ole Miss, Tennessee, Southern Miss, Southern Miss, Southern Arkansas, Texas State, Middle Tennessee State, Houston, Alabama, Southern Carolina, West Georgia. (total, 13).
Central and Northern universities on the Stamps import roster: Iowa, Youngstown State, Massachusetts, Louisville, Saginaw Valley, Virginia Tech, Temple, Brigham Young, Kansas. (total 9).

Uhoh, that's way less than 90%. It's not even 60%. Looks like you owe CP $20. Make you a deal though: stop talking out of your ass and we'll call it even. Or pay the $20 and keep talking out of your ass. Either way is fine.

[The Special One]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Serious offer: you want to bet money on this? Loser pays $20 to Calgarypuck? I'm going to assume that you'll say yes, since you're so confident.

Southern Universities on the Stamps import roster: North Carolina, East Carolina, Ole Miss, Tennessee, Southern Miss, Southern Miss, Southern Arkansas, Texas State, Middle Tennessee State, Houston, Alabama, Southern Carolina, West Georgia. (total, 13).
Central and Northern universities on the Stamps import roster: Iowa, Youngstown State, Massachusetts, Louisville, Saginaw Valley, Virginia Tech, Temple, Brigham Young, Kansas. (total 9).

Uhoh, that's way less than 90%. It's not even 60%. Looks like you owe CP $20. Make you a deal though: stop talking out of your ass and we'll call it even. Or pay the $20 and keep talking out of your ass. Either way is fine.

You're missing the point here. Not a single university from California and only one from New England: Massachusetts, which is a junior program. You're telling me that there's not a single player from California that isn't good enough to go to the CFL? They choose not to because their regular jobs will pay much more money.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Absolutely. My post was directed at the guy who said that NFL returners used the fair catch because they were too scared to run with the ball.



Why in god's name would a CFL player let a ball bounce? I've never seen a CFL player stay back and let the ball bounce. Most of the time I see them run and fall on the ball to catch the coverage team in the no-yards zone.

Admittedly, if they can get to the ball, they almost always will try to catch it, but they don't necessarily get to every ball to be able to catch it.

Theoretically, you could let a ball bounce to fake out the cover team, to get them into the five yard circle when you do touch the ball.

I do like the no yards rule a lot better then the fair catch rule, especially when all the other strategic options come into play. If I was in control though, I'd probably modify the rule somehow, especially for when the ball has already hit the ground. The point is to protect players from getting run over the moment they touch the ball; penalizing a player who is standing (not running towards the returner) 4 yards from where the ball is touched is not doing anything to protect the returner. I've often thought that it would be acceptable for the cover team, when the ball has already touched the ground (turning the penalty from 15 yards to 5 yards) to actually come and stand about 2 yards away from the ball, just to make sure that the returner only gets the 5 penalty yards on the return, and nothing more. You might be able to do away with the no yards penalty once the ball bounces, as then, the returner has the option to not touch the ball if someone is flying towards him, and he's not looking up into the sky, so he can see guys coming at him.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by The Special One

You're missing the point here. Not a single university from California and only one from New England: Massachusetts, which is a junior program. You're telling me that there's not a single player from California that isn't good enough to go to the CFL? They choose not to because their regular jobs will pay much more money.

No, you're missing the point. You said you were so sure about something that you'd bet money on it without even looking it up, and you were absolutely, factually, massively wrong. Just like other posts you've had in this thread. If you want your arguments to be taken seriously, actually look up your information so that you don't look totally ignorant.

Just like this post. There are lots of CFL players who played for California college programs. Such as non-import Stampeder Teyo Johnson, who's 10th all-time on Stanford's receiving list. Or Matt Grootegoed, who was an all-american linebacker with USC's 2004 team, but was just cut. But you would have us believe that a guy like Grootegoed simply doesn't want to play in the CFL because he'd make more money back home.

[The Special One]

Whatever. The CFL is minor league. Enjoy it for what it is - minor league football.

The NFL starts tonight and I'll bet you $100 the Pittsburgh game tonight gets better ratings in Canada than any of the four games over this past weekend in the CFL. Deal?

[Pagal4321]

Ohh, GREAT comeback. Your points all get disproved and you respond with "whatever"....comical.

Back to the Labour Day game? Or even the re-match that goes tomorrow night....or should we just change the title to NFL vs. CFL?

Doubtful that George and/or Hughes play tomorrow, but it's great to see some experience and hard-nosed players back on defense.