WoW: Cataclysm - Page 12 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

maverickstruth · 12-13-2010, 12:07 PM

We tried BH (10m) last night as well, mostly on a whim, none of us in much beyond levelling gear and a couple of rep items. We tried running 2 healers (disc priest, druid), which pretty much put our healers OOM by 50% -- and we were just barely ahead of enrage timer for DPS. Certainly not something you can just ding, walk in and come out with epics. Interesting encounter, though.

I do find it interesting that so far, most of the first kills are 25-man, not 10-man. More room for error in the 25s, it seems. Then again, we ran 10s exclusively in LK, and the content certainly wasn't easy without 25-man gear. Guess there's a reason there were no H-LK kills in 10-man strict until the very end. It'll be interesting to see if Blizz ends up having to adjust the balance between the two raid sizes, or if as players get more comfortable with new play styles, the differences will even out.

Blaster86 · 12-13-2010, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Hodir Hard Mode - Mages would spell steal a massive DPS buff (Flower Power) in a different zone (Sholozar Basin - Ulduar is in Storm Peaks) and get warlock ported in as the fight with Hodir started. They knew what they were doing.

And they're supposed to know this is an exploit? They are using something in the game to give them self a buff. Blizz should not have left that ability in there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Yogg-Saron Hard Mode (no Keeper's assistance) - The guild found a way to glitch the unkillable adds Yogg summons in the final phase by staying in the final brain room and taunting. The adds would spawn and never move. They knew what they were doing.

Yep, that's an exploit. Still blizzard's fault for leaving that one in there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazrim

The Lich King - Ensidia's rogues were using Saronite Bombs on the platform, which cause seige damage. This caused the collapsable platform to magically reform, making the fight significantly easier by removing a cruical part of the phase (Val'kyrs grabbing players and dropping them off the edge). They knew it was a bug, but they knowingly used it because it was there.

Actually, Ensidia said a few times they didn't realize it was a bug. They thought it was part of the fight. Blizz's fault for leaving it in aagain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazrim

To claim that they thought that it was part of the fight is simply untrue. If the boss randomly stopped working and was not reproducable, then I would agree with you (which I've seen happen myself). In the above three cases, the guild admitted to building their winning strategy around these glitches.

Only two of these were glitches, and only one was acknowledged by the guild as knowingly cheating. It's moot, they all got the shaft for finding mistakes lazy Blizzard programmers left.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazrim

I guess we should give Blizzard some credit. Mimiron Hard Mode - which is probably the toughest fight in WoW outside of Heroic Lich King - was flawlessly designed and requires perfect playing and skill from everyone, even when you outgear it. Anyone who did that one had no way to cheese it.

Yes. We should give them credit for managing to do something right and the way it is supposed to be done every time. That way it may encourage them to try and do it more regularly? =\.

Mazrim · 12-13-2010, 12:43 PM

I think you're trying too hard to push all the blame onto Blizzard. If these raiders are doing something that they know has a chance of getting them banned (Flower Power), or see something happen that isn't normal for the fight and then use it (Saronite Bombs), they're willingly taking a chance to get banned. If they just did it normally then no one would even question their world firsts every time they do it. Paragon has a clean record and therefore has little drama around them. Ensidia pushes these exploits and tries to play innocent. Just because Blizzard makes a mistake doesn't mean these guilds aren't also at fault for knowingly using them.

Regorium · 12-13-2010, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maverickstruth

We tried BH (10m) last night as well, mostly on a whim, none of us in much beyond levelling gear and a couple of rep items. We tried running 2 healers (disc priest, druid), which pretty much put our healers OOM by 50% -- and we were just barely ahead of enrage timer for DPS. Certainly not something you can just ding, walk in and come out with epics. Interesting encounter, though.

I do find it interesting that so far, most of the first kills are 25-man, not 10-man. More room for error in the 25s, it seems. Then again, we ran 10s exclusively in LK, and the content certainly wasn't easy without 25-man gear. Guess there's a reason there were no H-LK kills in 10-man strict until the very end. It'll be interesting to see if Blizz ends up having to adjust the balance between the two raid sizes, or if as players get more comfortable with new play styles, the differences will even out.

I feel like the reason for this is not because 25 man is easier, but because it is harder. I have a feeling most progression/world first type guilds are only going to count 25 man because it is the toughest content available.

Komskies · 12-13-2010, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regorium

I feel like the reason for this is not because 25 man is easier, but because it is harder. I have a feeling most progression/world first type guilds are only going to count 25 man because it is the toughest content available.

I don't think that is the reason. I believe guilds are running 25 mans for two different reasons.

1. It allows greater flexibility in your raid composition. It allows you to fluctuate between 5-8 healers, or bring in a 3rd tank. You also have a greater chance of having every raid buff.

2. This is the important one. Because Blizzard doesn't want their 25 man raid model to fall into obscurity, they have explicitly stated that 25 mans will reward more loot per person than 10 mans. For top guilds battling for world firsts every little upgrade counts.

nik- · 12-13-2010, 02:01 PM

I've just been running heroics as my little guild isn't geared enough to be starting raiding yet.

The heroics are fun, but I feel bad for healers because they seem poorly tuned at the moment. They second boss in Grim Batol is like a little 5 man raid boss, and Deadmines is so much fun. Trying to get enough gear to go Fury since it just still seems better than Arms, contrary to my hopes.

What is your guild Komskies, you guys seem to be doing pretty well for this early. When I see all these bosses being killed, it makes me wish I was in a progression guild, but I just can't bring myself to raid a schedule anymore, even a 3 day one.

Komskies · 12-13-2010, 02:06 PM

Guild is TF on Hyjal, formerly The Fabled. Our old GM, who hadn't actively played the game since way back in SSC didn't want to relinquish his title so we had to reform under a new identity.

Mazrim · 12-13-2010, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Komskies

Our old GM, who hadn't actively played the game since way back in SSC didn't want to relinquish his title so we had to reform under a new identity.

Hahaha...if there is one thing I can't stand more than anything from WoW (not counting Blaster's endless Blizzard Bashing

), it's power tripping idiots.

Kybosh · 12-13-2010, 02:49 PM

Where the hell do worgens train for level 40 riding? It says to see my trainer but I have no idea who that would be.

Ethaniel · 12-13-2010, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blaster86

And they're supposed to know this is an exploit? They are using something in the game to give them self a buff. Blizz should not have left that ability in there.

Yep, that's an exploit. Still blizzard's fault for leaving that one in there.

Actually, Ensidia said a few times they didn't realize it was a bug. They thought it was part of the fight. Blizz's fault for leaving it in aagain.

Only two of these were glitches, and only one was acknowledged by the guild as knowingly cheating. It's moot, they all got the shaft for finding mistakes lazy Blizzard programmers left.

Yes. We should give them credit for managing to do something right and the way it is supposed to be done every time. That way it may encourage them to try and do it more regularly? =\.

Do tell me then oh great wise one.
Where is this perfect game you speak of?
Also since when is it not possible for Human Beings to not make a mistake.
I would love to see you produce a game this size and make sure that everything is absolutely Perfect.

Mazrim · 12-13-2010, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kybosh

Where the hell do worgens train for level 40 riding? It says to see my trainer but I have no idea who that would be.

Isn't it a racial for Worgen? That means you automatically got it at 20, and it should automatically upgrade at level 40. I don't think you have to do anything.

Kybosh · 12-13-2010, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Isn't it a racial for Worgen? That means you automatically got it at 20, and it should automatically upgrade at level 40. I don't think you have to do anything.

The level 20 riding was racial and just appeared. My journeyman riding icon in the spell book says that I need to find my riding trainer. I can't find any answers on the net either.

Blaster86 · 12-13-2010, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethaniel

I would love to see you produce a game this size and make sure that everything is absolutely Perfect.

They keep releasing products and major content patches early. Stop rushing #### out, stuff gets better quickly.

CaramonLS · 12-13-2010, 06:10 PM

For MMO releases, Blizzard has been by far the most stable/closest to finished product on the market.

Mazrim · 12-13-2010, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

For MMO releases, Blizzard has been by far the most stable/closest to finished product on the market.

Agreed. But...just to make Blaster giddy with happiness, Nefarian is currently unkillable in 25 man because he despawns after a soft reset. DAMN YOU BLIZZARD!

Mazrim · 12-13-2010, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kybosh

The level 20 riding was racial and just appeared. My journeyman riding icon in the spell book says that I need to find my riding trainer. I can't find any answers on the net either.

Any riding trainer should offer something then. Did you try the one in Stormwind near the flight point?

Blaster86 · 12-13-2010, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Agreed. But...just to make Blaster giddy with happiness, Nefarian is currently unkillable in 25 man because he despawns after a soft reset. DAMN YOU BLIZZARD!

Socked. Honestly, shocked. It's like the game may have been released before actually being completed, or something?

theonlywhiteout · 12-13-2010, 07:42 PM

are all casters now mana batteries or is that just druids at low levels? it seems like i can cast fury all i want and never lose mana

Blaster86 · 12-13-2010, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theonlywhiteout

are all casters now mana batteries or is that just druids at low levels? it seems like i can cast fury all i want and never lose mana

Always been like that for druids.

Mazrim · 12-13-2010, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Socked. Honestly, shocked. It's like the game may have been released before actually being completed, or something?

The fight and raid itself is fine. It's a bug outside the the mechanics of the raid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theonlywhiteout

are all casters now mana batteries or is that just druids at low levels? it seems like i can cast fury all i want and never lose mana

They purposely changed regen at low levels for all casters so you spend less time eating/drinking and more time leveling.