Board to decide bus beheader's fate

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Bootsy

I'm sorry but when you chop off the head a guy sleeping next to you on a bus, carry it around taunting people with it and then proceed to eat the corpse....no kind of sickness excuses that, he has an evil in him that will never be fully cured. He should be at the very least be locked up for good but really the cops should have just shot him, its a shame this never happened in Ontario with the trigger happy OPP. To let him have unsupervised visits is sickening.

Originally Posted by pylon

It's a travesty this guy wasn't blown away. I am not a huge revenge fantasy guy. But I really hope someone takes out this guy. Whether he meant it or not, what he did, puts him below the status of a rabid diseased animal, or fecal matter.

I understand he may not have been in control, but sometimes that just doesn't matter anymore. Some people are so broken, society truly would benefit for them to just die. You are human scum not matter what. If I had woken up from a daze and found out I had done something this heinous, I would be looking for anyway I could to end my life.

The compassion and empathy on this site is just overwhelming.

HF: Absolutely. On his medication, he's not a threat at all. Off his medication.... I'm pretty sure with the guilt that he feels, even though he wasn't in control of himself, will keep him from going off his medication. But for arguments sake, let's say that he is. There are plenty of people with mental illnesses that are roaming the streets... we take our chances every day. What was that line? Those that take away liberty to purchase safety deserve neither? I'll live life a little unsafe if it means not locking up people because they were sick.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

The compassion and empathy on this site is just overwhelming.

HF: Absolutely. On his medication, he's not a threat at all. Off his medication.... I'm pretty sure with the guilt that he feels, even though he wasn't in control of himself, will keep him from going off his medication. But for arguments sake, let's say that he is. There are plenty of people with mental illnesses that are roaming the streets... we take our chances every day. What was that line? Those that take away liberty to purchase safety deserve neither? I'll live life a little unsafe if it means not locking up people because they were sick.

Just to remind you.

He hacked a guys head off while he was alive, in what was likely the most painful horrific death you could imagine. Taunted people with the head. And ate some of the corpse.

This animal, terrorized and changed the lives of every single person on that bus, every responder, and the family. And there is a significant chance this could happen again if he goes off his medication. He has already damaged and destroyed so many lives, and we want to risk it again because we have bleeding hearts for him? I don't care what he is going through. He's a ticking time bomb. And society is far better off with this monster dead.

Would you have the same sympathy for a pedophile that claimed to be cured through chemical castration? Pedophilia is a sickness too, isn't it? Because many would argue, what this guy did was far, far worse.

[Devils'Advocate]

I know exactly what he did. And he was not in control of his actions when he did it.

Pedophile is different in that they CHOOSE to act upon their impulses and molested a child even when they knew what they were doing was wrong. This guy did not choose to kill anyone.

[Boblobla]

What if it was a schizophrenic pedophile?

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I know exactly what he did. And he was not in control of his actions when he did it.

Pedophile is different in that they CHOOSE to act upon their impulses and molested a child even when they knew what they were doing was wrong. This guy did not choose to kill anyone.

Bears and Sharks don't understand the societal implications of what they do either, yet if they decapitate and eat a human, they forfeit the right to live. Humans are still animals. And some animals are best culled from the population.

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Off his medication.... I'm pretty sure with the guilt that he feels, even though he wasn't in control of himself, will keep him from going off his medication.
...
Those that take away liberty to purchase safety deserve neither?

So glad you are "pretty sure" about that. I feel SO much better now.

As for the second part, strange to see you bring that quote up, because if I did, from my libertarian viewpoint, you would jump all over me. Funny that...

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by pylon

It's a travesty this guy wasn't blown away. I am not a huge revenge fantasy guy. But I really hope someone takes out this guy. Whether he meant it or not, what he did, puts him below the status of a rabid diseased animal, or fecal matter.

I understand he may not have been in control, but sometimes that just doesn't matter anymore. Some people are so broken, society truly would benefit for them to just die. You are human scum not matter what. If I had woken up from a daze and found out I had done something this heinous, I would be looking for anyway I could to end my life.

Maybe Canada can go and start applying the death penalty to mentally ######ed people like our neighbors to the south. Would you advocate that?

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Maybe Canada can go and start applying the death penalty to mentally ######ed people like our neighbors to the south. Would you advocate that?

If mentally ######ed people were chopping peoples heads off and eating human flesh, yes I would advocate it.

[Coys1882]

This guy walked into a restaurant and shot to death an innocent man - he's just an ####### criminal and no one bays for his blood like this guy with Schizophrenia. I would argue that this man is more 'broken' than Vince Li. Granted he didn't cut the head of a sleeping passenger but it's the shock value of the crime that repulses people.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/03/29...ilty-of-murder

That being said - this guy should have to prove he's taking his medication every day for the rest of his life and if for some reason he can't - he goes back to the hospital immediately.

I should add that I used to work with the mentally ill so maybe I'm biased - it's heartbreaking to see good honest people morph into complete paranoid delusional 'monsters' and prefer to live that way rather than the dulling 'fighting through cobwebs' feeling and excessive drooling they experience on their meds. I think I mentioned in this thread last year that I feel blaming a schizophrenic for his actions is like blaming an epileptic for having a seizure - but you should most definitely blame them for their actions if they knowingly go OFF their medications.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by pylon

Just to remind you.

He hacked a guys head off while he was alive, in what was likely the most painful horrific death you could imagine. Taunted people with the head. And ate some of the corpse.

This animal, terrorized and changed the lives of every single person on that bus, every responder, and the family. And there is a significant chance this could happen again if he goes off his medication. He has already damaged and destroyed so many lives, and we want to risk it again because we have bleeding hearts for him? I don't care what he is going through. He's a ticking time bomb. And society is far better off with this monster dead.

Would you have the same sympathy for a pedophile that claimed to be cured through chemical castration? Pedophilia is a sickness too, isn't it? Because many would argue, what this guy did was far, far worse.

You really have no idea about mental illnesses do you? The guy was in a psychotic state, to hold him responsible for the actions committed in that state shows a lack of understanding and frankly empathy for those with mental illnesses. In this case I have reservations about him getting released but I do think that to wish death upon someone because they murdered someone is ironic and disgusting - at least you could say from his that he wasn't in control of his faculties, you on the other hand...

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by pylon

Bears and Sharks don't understand the societal implications of what they do either, yet if they decapitate and eat a human, they forfeit the right to live. Humans are still animals. And some animals are best culled from the population.

I can't believe someone with a Jewish heritage would ever f'n say something so obscene... I can't believe that you are one step away from eugenics is what I mean.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

You really have no idea about mental illnesses do you? The guy was in a psychotic state, to hold him responsible for the actions committed in that state shows a lack of understanding and frankly empathy for those with mental illnesses. In this case I have reservations about him getting released but I do think that to wish death upon someone because they murdered someone is ironic and disgusting - at least you could say from his that he wasn't in control of his faculties, you on the other hand...

I am very aware of mental illness.

I am not arguing that he was in a psychotic state, or if he wasn't aware of what he was doing, and I can actually somewhat empathize with the mental anguish he very well may be feeling.

To relate this somewhat to my most hated genre of fiction. Essentially what this guy became was a zombie. Out of control, diseased, and almost unstoppable. Do you empathize with a zombie? Or destroy it for everyones safety?

I am arguing that there is a certain point and line a human being can cross, that cannot be forgiven, no matter the circumstances. And that the risk to society in general is too great, to chance releasing the guy. At minimum, this man should be institutionalized for life IMO. You however, can let the guy move into your basement, in the hopes he religiously takes his medication each and every day. And feel comfortable knowing that your new roomie, has ingested and defecated human remains.

Anyone in this thread defending Vincent Li, would have a completely different stance if it was your son he butchered.

[Delthefunky]

I'm all for rehabilitation, but in this case I don't think I could ever trust this guy to be allowed back into society unsupervised. He cut off a guy's head with a buck knife ffs.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Delthefunky

I'm all for rehabilitation, but in this case I don't think I could ever trust this guy to be allowed back into society unsupervised. He cut off a guy's head with a buck knife ffs.

See? This kind of thing is why they're searching people at the 'Dome now.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by pylon

I am very aware of mental illness.

I am not arguing that he was in a psychotic state, or if he wasn't aware of what he was doing, and I can actually somewhat empathize with the mental anguish he very well may be feeling.

To relate this somewhat to my most hated genre of fiction. Essentially what this guy became was a zombie. Out of control, diseased, and almost unstoppable. Do you empathize with a zombie? Or destroy it for everyones safety?

I am arguing that there is a certain point and line a human being can cross, that cannot be forgiven, no matter the circumstances. And that the risk to society in general is too great, to chance releasing the guy. At minimum, this man should be institutionalized for life IMO. You however, can let the guy move into your basement, in the hopes he religiously takes his medication each and every day. And feel comfortable knowing that your new roomie, has ingested and defecated human remains.

Anyone in this thread defending Vincent Li, would have a completely different stance if it was your son he butchered.

How do I empathize with him, because he isn't a zombie, he is a man with a serious illness that he wasn't receiving proper treatment for. I think that he should be in some form of institution for life, but I don't think it needs to be of the coo-coos nest variety if it can be avoided. There are plenty of options available, such as a group home or somewhere that his medication can be monitored by staff members and then if there are issues that arise such as refusing to take medication then he could be re-institutionalized at a hospital like Alberta Hospital.

More than one option exists in the situation.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I can't believe someone with a Jewish heritage would ever f'n say something so obscene... I can't believe that you are one step away from eugenics is what I mean.

Believing in Capital punishment, doesn't make someone a Nazi.

And excellent godwinning!

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by pylon

Believing in Capital punishment, doesn't make someone a Nazi.

And excellent godwinning!

No, I think that believing that some people need to be culled from society when talking about people with mental illnesses is remarkably close to exactly what happened.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

No, I think that believing that some people need to be culled from society when talking about people with mental illnesses is remarkably close to exactly what happened.

No it's not even close.

I don't recall any stories of the Jews decapitating and eating Germans. And they weren't posing a physical threat to anyone.

I have zero issues with mental illness. I happen to suffer a form of it myself. But if my Clinical Depression ever causes me to go stabby McHeadchoppy, you have my permission to put a bullet in the back of my head to protect society.

[Minnie]

Vincent Li culled someone from society.

[Locke]

Hopefully its not the 'Greyhound Canada' board. They may still be harbouring something of a grudge.