Ann Coulter on teachers

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

The word "quibble" is far from derogatory.

First time I've ever used it for anything too.

[DESS]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

First of all, a Masters is not the basic requirement for teaching. Many teachers do not obtain their masters until years after teaching, but since you know so much about teachers, I am not sure why you make such a incorrect statement.

My facts are straight. I said from the UofC it is as this is a Calgary discussion. And I was talking about of Masters of Education/Teaching (not sure exactly what it's called), but it is not even a "real" masters degree. I know you can go to Lethbridge or many other places and get your teaching certificate in 4 years. What's your point?

Really though, that is beside the point. $54,000 is an ok wage, nothing great but enough to get by on. After 11 years $83,000, that is a pretty good wage, a decent wage that someone with 6 years of schooling and 11 years of experience deserves. Especially someone doing a job as important as teaching the people who will run our country in the future. We aren't talking about Tim Hortons employees here. One thing that you should be happy about is that teachers only get a raise of whatever the cost of living increase is.

Here are a few other starting salaries.

Chemical engineering grads' - $63,749
computer science majors - $56,921
engineering graduates - $56,336
finance and accounting graduates - $48,795 and $47,413
Economics - $52,926
Nursing - $52,129

The difference, since you apparently haven't read any of my other posts, is that I contend a teacher only works 75% of the year, which means they are paid disproportionately high for the number of hours worked/year. The problem with this argument is nobody has been able to find facts or stats that show how many hours in a year the average teacher works compared to other vocations.

See above please.

[DESS]

Originally Posted by MJK

I teach in Nunavut.
I work 8:30-3:30 Mon-Fri
I coach basketball Mon-Wed-Fri 4-6
I fundraise every Thurs 7-10
I plan every night 8-9
I correct papers once a week or so
I volunteer to go to Science camp, science fair, basketball tournaments, music club, most of which happen on weekends.

If you think a teacher works 8:30-3:30 you are sadly mistaken.

You're another great example of why a merit-based system would be better. Nunavut is lucky to have you...you should come down to Calgary! lol

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by DESS

See above please.

And you just seem to not be able to comprehend that teachers work more hours during the school year than 40 hours a week. You wont find anything showing the actual hours worked by teachers because it is not recorded as it is not considered overtime hours.

[moon]

Originally Posted by redforever

I have been both a teacher and am a parent as well. That statement simply is not true. It might work to a certain point with young children, but once kids are a certain age, motivation is by and large from within.

Anyone who has parented teenagers or coached teenagers knows of what I speak.

I am not sure how you stating that most of kids motivation comes from within disputes the parent vs. teacher argument. Unless you think that all motivation comes from within therefore both teachers and parents have nothing to do with it.

Even if what you say is true I would argue that most of that motivation is shaped by parents at a younger age. Rarely is it a spontaneous desire that just develops out of the blue.

What parents did earlier in life has a big impact on the ability/desire of teen-agers to motivate themselves.

I haven't parented teenagers (thank god) but have coached and worked with them a lot so do have experience in that area with them.

[MJK]

I would also like to mention that teaching in smaller areas is a community investment. You get to know the kids and their parents. You interact with them on a daily basis and there is no escaping! Most 9-5 jobs you leave work and forget about it for the day. I have kids showing up at my house at all hours looking to go to the school just for something to do. I can guarantee you that I am not the only one who invests so much time into their job.

Most teachers spend an incredible amount of overtime hours working that rarely get noticed by anyone.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Well my wife was off to work at the school an hour ago and she will probably be there for three hours today on her own time. But Dess will think that it is a lie and that teachers don't do such things.

[peter12]

DESS is totally destroying you guys. Completely. You all fail to notice that he is also arguing to eliminate the seniority system and implement a meritocracy.

Starting wage of 54k without a Masters degree and 0 years of experience. That's pretty great. Even if you do work 60 hours a week.

By the way, I think I have yet to see one supporter of the current public education system say that they "don't do it for the money!"

[kootenayguy9]

Originally Posted by MJK

I teach in Nunavut.
I work 8:30-3:30 Mon-Fri
I coach basketball Mon-Wed-Fri 4-6
I fundraise every Thurs 7-10
I plan every night 8-9
I correct papers once a week or so
I volunteer to go to Science camp, science fair, basketball tournaments, music club, most of which happen on weekends.

If you think a teacher works 8:30-3:30 you are sadly mistaken.

I was just like you MJK a few years ago. I was at conference recently in
Vancouver and most of the teachers I talked to have with similar hours to you that live in small rural communities. One thing I was thinking about is how I like the anonymity of Calgary where you don't always have to be involved in your small community as I found that very stressful after awhile. I also find it very beneficial where you can do alot of work for home now which includes marking and even report cards.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by peter12

DESS is totally destroying you guys. Completely. You all fail to notice that he is also arguing to eliminate the seniority system and implement a meritocracy.

Starting wage of 54k without a Masters degree and 0 years of experience. That's pretty great. Even if you do work 60 hours a week.

By the way, I think I have yet to see one supporter of the current public education system say that they "don't do it for the money!"

Ya ok, what planet are you on? I guess you didn't read my post above showing a starting salary for a highschool educated clerk is 40G, people like you and Dess are just angry that other people make more money than you and you like taking it out on the public servants because their wages are paid by the tax system.

[MJK]

I sure as hell don't do this for the money. I do it for the lifestyle. I live in a town of 300 people, 90% are Inuit. My fiance is Inuit and I met her here. I enjoy it here becuase I am now invested in this community and plan to stay. I am currently in the process of buying my first home.

Nunavut salaries are the highest in Canada but that is not why I am here.

If money was the only reason people taught, everyone would come to the North. Instead, there are several open jobs waiting to be filled. In fact, there is a job open at my school.

Anyone want a job???

[moon]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Ya ok, what planet are you on? I guess you didn't read my post above showing a starting salary for a highschool educated clerk is 40G, people like you and Dess are just angry that other people make more money than you and you like taking it out on the public servants because their wages are paid by the tax system.

How much does peter12 make?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Ya ok, what planet are you on? I guess you didn't read my post above showing a starting salary for a highschool educated clerk is 40G, people like you and Dess are just angry that other people make more money than you and you like taking it out on the public servants because their wages are paid by the tax system.

As I said, 54k starting is a heck of a good wage, no matter how you want to spin it. Not to mention a very good benefits package. Teachers aren't starving.

Actually you couldn't be more wrong. I've been intending to go into education as soon as I finish my master's degree and as you have demonstrated, I will be taking a substantial pay decrease. As I've stated many times in this thread, I love teaching and I think when done properly it must be one of the most rewarding professions out there.

My main complaint is with the sense of entitlement coupled with the complete lack of professional standards that some teachers have. As I've said, it's such an important job, we need to have very high standards with which to judge it.

DESS may be a little insane in a lot of his arguments, but the heart of it is still very valid. Teachers do make a good wage, going above and beyond is mainly optional, and there is no framework of incentives to reward superb teaching.

Bad and good teachers are lumped together. I can honestly say that I have had some awful teachers who are responsible for some tough times in my life. They hold an almost deity-like grasp of control over your life for an important period of time. It is right that we should look a bit cynically on the bad apples.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by moon

How much does peter12 make?

That sure is none of your business.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by moon

How much does peter12 make?

I believe he's stated in the past he is a graduate student.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

I believe he's stated in the past he is a graduate student.

Currently taking a break, working full-time.

[MJK]

If anyone wants to come here and teach half time but make full time money, check this out: Working half time here will pay you about $45,000 and there is lots of subbing to do!

http://www.educationcanada.com/browse.phtml?sid=nu&eid=241&jid=69777&a=jlp〈=eng

[peter12]

Originally Posted by MJK

If anyone wants to come here and teach half time but make full time money, check this out: Working half time here will pay you about $45,000 and there is lots of subbing to do!

http://www.educationcanada.com/browse.phtml?sid=nu&eid=241&jid=69777&a=jlp〈=eng

How do you find the personal strain of teaching up there? Is the community healthy?

I have a cousin who used to teach on the Tsuu-Tina reserve and she had to quit because of the sadness and difficulty that was involved in teaching such a damaged and hurting community.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by peter12

As I said, 54k starting is a heck of a good wage, no matter how you want to spin it. Not to mention a very good benefits package. Teachers aren't starving.

Actually you couldn't be more wrong. I've been intending to go into education as soon as I finish my master's degree and as you have demonstrated, I will be taking a substantial pay decrease. As I've stated many times in this thread, I love teaching and I think when done properly it must be one of the most rewarding professions out there.

My main complaint is with the sense of entitlement coupled with the complete lack of professional standards that some teachers have. As I've said, it's such an important job, we need to have very high standards with which to judge it.

DESS may be a little insane in a lot of his arguments, but the heart of it is still very valid. Teachers do make a good wage, going above and beyond is mainly optional, and there is no framework of incentives to reward superb teaching.

Bad and good teachers are lumped together. I can honestly say that I have had some awful teachers who are responsible for some tough times in my life. They hold an almost deity-like grasp of control over your life for an important period of time. It is right that we should look a bit cynically on the bad apples.

You could make this argument for any public service agency and most upper management in any corprate company.

You can make the same arguement for doctors, public servants, politicians, I mean honestly, WTF is the deal with bashing on teachers, simply because they are an easy target?

Get your facts straight. Lump one group into this category you can lump them all into it.

[MJK]

There is a huge difference between teaching in a First Nations community/Reserve and an Inuit community.

No real strain at all. The biggest hurdle is getting the kids motivated. Other than that it is really rewarding and I am very happy I came here and got to know everyone.