have you ever had a dui, or been close?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Dion

How i great i was? I merely stated my stance on the issue and how i dealt with it.



I don't buy the borderline comment. In my view you're either for or against drinking and driving. Driving to a bar with the intent of have one beer or two in my view is not a smart thing to do as it puts you in a situation where you might decide to have a few more and risk not having an option to get home.

But our point is despite the fact that you think people will either drink and drive or not, there is plenty of proof that people will unfortunitly choose to drive when the options are brutal, people who would have done differently had the options been there. We're ARE NOT sticking up for these people, we're simply saying it happens, so let's make the options better so that it happens less, and therefoer less people get hurt or killed.

...and you guys simply keep throwing our theories out the window for no reason other than anger towards impaired driving imo.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Dion

How i great i was? I merely stated my stance on the issue and how i dealt with it.

You didn't merely state it, you bring it up every second post for a total of roughly 700 posts on it.

I don't buy the borderline comment. In my view you're either for or against drinking and driving. Driving to a bar with the intent of have one beer or two in my view is not a smart thing to do as it puts you in a situation where you might decide to have a few more and risk not having an option to get home.

Who is this thread is for DUI's?

The people who you seem to be implying are have proposed a hell of a lot more to stop it than you have.

I am amazed that saying that there should be more cabs is now being for drinking and driving.

I agree that driving to the bar when you could be in a position to drink and drive isn't a smart thing to do. But just repeatedly saying that people shouldn't drink and drive does 0 to stop it.

Instead of ranting and raving about how terrible the people who drink and drive are some of us are trying to find ways to prevent it from happening in the first place.

You, redforver and even CC are welcome to focus on shaming/punishing/lecturing the drunks after the fact, personally I would much rather prefer to stop them from getting to the stage where they drive drunk in the first place.

But that may be because I don't support drinking and driving they way you do.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by fotze

Simple solution. Don't drink and drive. Thread can be closed.

Other problems that I will solve:

Middle East War - Stop fighting.
Caramilk secret - put caramel in bar
Starving kids in Africa - Food for kids in Africa
Low Oil price in Alberta - Raise oil price
Financial meltdown - Reverse financial meltdown
Flames not leading the league - Flames win all remaining games
Daniel Ryder "issues" - Daniel Ryder start trying harder

Just thought I'd bump this awesome post to this page.

[jayswin]

btw I don't know if I've ever seen an argument go back and forth for so long, with no new facts or opinions being brought forth, lol.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by flameswin

btw I don't know if I've ever seen an argument go back and forth for so long, with no new facts or opinions being brought forth, lol.

lol how true

I don't see it being for/against DUI, the way I see it between me, 4x4, ken and flameswin, moon VS redforever, Dion and CaptainCrunch, its between either preventing it from happening VS letting it happen then finding the most severe and bizarro punishment. Sort of odd how this thread turned out.

Anyways, I'm bored of this debate.

[driveway]

New debate!

Who is more awesome and why:

Han Solo, or Indiana Jones.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by flameswin

But our point is despite the fact that you think people will either drink and drive or not, there is plenty of proof that people will unfortunitly choose to drive when the options are brutal, people who would have done differently had the options been there. We're ARE NOT sticking up for these people, we're simply saying it happens, so let's make the options better so that it happens less, and therefoer less people get hurt or killed.

I never said you were or others were sticking up for these people. I also recognise that situations can brutal for people as ken and others have pointed out.

My only question is wether the suggestions will be as effective as some say they will. Are they driving home because there is no cabs or is it because they know the chances of getting caught are very slim as suggested in the article below?

“The anecdotal number passed around in medical, policing and automotive circles is that you can drive drunk about 2,000 times in Alberta before you get caught,” said Dr. Louis Francescutti.

“It’s very simple to understand why more people are doing it. They know it’s wrong but they’re fairly certain they can drive from one place to another without getting stopped by the cops. The average drunk driver isn’t worrying about putting others at risk.”

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Edmo...3/4751515.html

...and you guys simply keep throwing our theories out the window for no reason other than anger towards impaired driving imo.

Objections were raised as to why it might not work.

An already shortage of bus drivers in this city. Plus the cost of running empty buses and trains late at night.

Cab drivers not wanting to deal with unruly drunks. Or a comment i've heard from cab drivers about drunks puking in their cars and having to clean up their mess.

Just a few examples that were raised and discussed further.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by driveway

New debate!

Who is more awesome and why:

Han Solo, or Indiana Jones.

Han Solo, he has a cooler gun, a sweeter ride and a way better sidekick. The Falcon rocks and Chewie would tear Shortround to pieces.

Besides, I'm sure Han has had a few before making the Kessel run in 12 parsecs. Hell, he was drinking in a bar before flying Luke and Obi-Wan off Tatooine.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Dion

Objections were raised as to why it might not work.

An already shortage of bus drivers in this city. Plus the cost of running empty buses and trains late at night.

Cab drivers not wanting to deal with unruly drunks. Or a comment i've heard from cab drivers about drunks puking in their cars and having to clean up their mess.

Just wanted to address these issues a little bit.

As for the empty buses and trains, coming from a city where the buses run late into the wee hours of the morning (Winnipeg); I have always wondered in Calgary just how much of that is cause vs. effect. For example, I live in Copperfield. The last bus from the C-Train to Copperfield runs around 10:00pm. Other routes are similar; and the system shuts down by about midnight. Does nobody take transit because it doesn't run late enough? Or does transit not run very late because nobody takes it?

I look back to my days slinging pizzas. We would close at midnight or 1:00 on weekends. The reason being- "nobody orders that late at night." At one point the owner and I decided we would continue taking orders as late as we could, and do so for a few months to see what happened. Once word got out that we were open late, we started to get busy late at night.

But I digress, and I agree that running transit later is a far more complex issue than just drunk driving. There are costs that none of us are qualified to answer, and I'm sure other variables.

However with the issue of taxis not wanting people getting sick or passing out in their cabs- I have to say "tough." A number of years ago I was at an after work function. I had taken the train to work that day in anticipation of not being able to drive home after. A girl I worked with ended up having way too much to drink, so after getting her cleaned up I volunteered to get a cab and take her home. We spent 1/2 an hour trying to hail cabs on 11th ave. Some would stop- but then they would see her and speed off. She was also so plastered that she wanted me to drive her home with her car; or she could drive.

We finally got her standing up long enough to hail a cab. But what an ordeal.

My point in all of this- the shortage in this city is for cab licenses- not in drivers looking to work as cabbies. Being in any job you take the good with the bad. I worked in bars and dealt with drunks. It was a fun job most of the time; but sometimes you had to clean up puke or break up a fight. If a cabbie only wants the middle class families as fares, then they are in the wrong business. You have to take the good with the bad.

Add to all of this the fact that there is always a shortage of cabs in Calgary- not just after bars and not just NYE. Last weekend we had a cabbie pull a complete dumb-dumb manuvre in front of us. We got to the store we were going to and when my g/f went in, I tried to call the cab company to complain. I tried for 40 minutes and never got past the busy signal. This was on a Saturday at 2:00 in the afternoon.

Cab companies could instute a cleaning fee chargeable to customers. Heck- even require a deposit up front if the person is drunk. I know in my younger days I had cabbies ask for some cash up front.

I suppose my bottom line is that more cabs certainly won't completely solve the issue of drunk driving. But it can't hurt; and there is no arguing that we need more.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Just wanted to address these issues a little bit.

As for the empty buses and trains, coming from a city where the buses run late into the wee hours of the morning (Winnipeg); I have always wondered in Calgary just how much of that is cause vs. effect. For example, I live in Copperfield. The last bus from the C-Train to Copperfield runs around 10:00pm. Other routes are similar; and the system shuts down by about midnight. Does nobody take transit because it doesn't run late enough? Or does transit not run very late because nobody takes it?

I look back to my days slinging pizzas. We would close at midnight or 1:00 on weekends. The reason being- "nobody orders that late at night." At one point the owner and I decided we would continue taking orders as late as we could, and do so for a few months to see what happened. Once word got out that we were open late, we started to get busy late at night.

But I digress, and I agree that running transit later is a far more complex issue than just drunk driving. There are costs that none of us are qualified to answer, and I'm sure other variables.

You raise some good points. When i lived in Queensland i worked the graveyard shift for Safeway near Southcentre Mall. I took the bus to avoid wear and tear on my vehicle. Anyway the bus i took at 11 PM was mostly empty with me and the driver plus a few other passengers. On the other hand my best friends wife works for the Foothills hospital and is frustratrated with the fact that transit doesn't run late at night as many nurses and such would have used the service.

I have wondered if maybe the bars downtown should get together and purchase a few school buses and use them to transport bar patrons home. Say one for each quadrant in the city. That might help to ease the taxi and public transit situation.

However with the issue of taxis not wanting people getting sick or passing out in their cabs- I have to say "tough." A number of years ago I was at an after work function. I had taken the train to work that day in anticipation of not being able to drive home after. A girl I worked with ended up having way too much to drink, so after getting her cleaned up I volunteered to get a cab and take her home. We spent 1/2 an hour trying to hail cabs on 11th ave. Some would stop- but then they would see her and speed off. She was also so plastered that she wanted me to drive her home with her car; or she could drive.

We finally got her standing up long enough to hail a cab. But what an ordeal.

My point in all of this- the shortage in this city is for cab licenses- not in drivers looking to work as cabbies. Being in any job you take the good with the bad. I worked in bars and dealt with drunks. It was a fun job most of the time; but sometimes you had to clean up puke or break up a fight. If a cabbie only wants the middle class families as fares, then they are in the wrong business. You have to take the good with the bad.

Add to all of this the fact that there is always a shortage of cabs in Calgary- not just after bars and not just NYE. Last weekend we had a cabbie pull a complete dumb-dumb manuvre in front of us. We got to the store we were going to and when my g/f went in, I tried to call the cab company to complain. I tried for 40 minutes and never got past the busy signal. This was on a Saturday at 2:00 in the afternoon.

Cab companies could instute a cleaning fee chargeable to customers. Heck- even require a deposit up front if the person is drunk. I know in my younger days I had cabbies ask for some cash up front.

I suppose my bottom line is that more cabs certainly won't completely solve the issue of drunk driving. But it can't hurt; and there is no arguing that we need more.

Your g/f comment reminds of a time when a buddy and i took a cab home from some bar on electric avenue. He tells the driver he's going to puke and is told to stick his head out the window. He did but unfourtunately the puke never made the ground as most landed on the hood of the car behind him.

I do think though that you make some suggestions. A cleaning fee might get more drivers to take bar patrons as a fare plus it would help with any possible cleaning costs. Maybe have barf bags available in the back seat like you see in the seat backs of airplanes. Money up front was asked of us on a few occassions.

I'm still up in the air as wether it will make a huge effect but will agree that add more cabs will help the situation.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by ken0042

As for the empty buses and trains, coming from a city where the buses run late into the wee hours of the morning (Winnipeg); I have always wondered in Calgary just how much of that is cause vs. effect. For example, I live in Copperfield. The last bus from the C-Train to Copperfield runs around 10:00pm. Other routes are similar; and the system shuts down by about midnight. Does nobody take transit because it doesn't run late enough? Or does transit not run very late because nobody takes it?

To add to your question:

Why doesn't Calgary follow other cities and have all night public transport on probably the biggest drinking night of the year (New Years Eve)?

e.g. London on New Years Eve. Tubes run all night and they're free.

At least try it for one year to measure the demand.

[Ice]

Originally Posted by Locke

Han Solo, he has a cooler gun, a sweeter ride and a way better sidekick. The Falcon rocks and Chewie would tear Shortround to pieces.

Besides, I'm sure Han has had a few before making the Kessel run in 12 parsecs. Hell, he was drinking in a bar before flying Luke and Obi-Wan off Tatooine.

I'm gonna have to disagree. Han Solo had it pretty easy, slick ride, lots of awesome weapons. Indiana Jones had to rely more on his intellect and physical abilities. There was so much more to the Indiana Jones character than the Han Solo, very generic, hot rebel who gets the princess.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by HOOT

There is limits where you should just say no and find an alternative. Having 3 beers over the length of a hockey game and you are probably fine. If you are bringing out shots find a ride home!

I once had three beers at a Stamps game this summer, drove home about an hour after the game and got pulled over by a checkstop. I blew once and registered a 0.0027% BAC, second time registered a 0.0019% BAC. Laughably short of even remotely coming close to being a problem. Best part about it is that the cop was a real a&^ prior to each of the two breath samples I provided lecturing me about road safety and alcohol.

Conversely,

A couple of friends of mine went to a Flames game last year and proceeded to have three beers over the course of the game. About an hour after the game I got a call from them claiming that they had been stopped at a Checkstop off 9th Ave in Inglewood and that I needed to come pick them up after his car got impounded. Turns out he was lucky and only got a 24 hour suspension and impound fees with no citation on his driving record for being 0.10 BAC. The slightest bit higher BAC and he's in DUI territory. Just for the record my friend is 5 foot 9 and about 175 pounds (Pretty typical-sized guy). So yes 3 beers at the game can be too much.

. . .

I guess the two stories taken together we can draw conclusions:

1) Beers at a Flames game are much stronger than beers at a Stamps game. Evidence of Herion beer's special powers!

2) Compared to my friend I have a super liver as I'm not too much bigger than him

3) Everything varies depending on the person, what, when, and how beverages are consumed and it's wrong to just assume you're fine based on the experience of other friends who are similarily sized.

[burn_this_city]

Odouls dont count as beer..

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Ice

I'm gonna have to disagree. Han Solo had it pretty easy, slick ride, lots of awesome weapons. Indiana Jones had to rely more on his intellect and physical abilities. There was so much more to the Indiana Jones character than the Han Solo, very generic, hot rebel who gets the princess.

Screw that, I'm taking Lando Calrissian. The guy was smooth, suave, always accessorized with a cape and he was the spokesman for Colt .45

[4X4]

Yeah well you're all forgetting about Zapp Branigan.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Yeah well you're all forgetting about Zapp Branigan.

Oh come on Zapp Branigan. Sure he had some of the best lines out there, but he was just sad in the sauve department.