Conservatives To Slash Federal Funding of Political Parties [Update-CPC backs down]

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Wow, take off the blinders. This was a power play by the Conservatives, end of story. Even other conservatives in this thread have admitted this was a move to test the Libs and see if they'd roll over without a fight. Taking away the subsidies has almost nothign to do with fighting a rescission, and everythign to do with testing the power of thier minority government.
Do you expect the other parties to just accept anything that's put forward in the name of making government work?
It's their responsibility to respresent their voters and ensure the Conservatives pull a little closer to the center and don't pull arrogant tricks like this one.
Well done to the other parties

I would agree with you, but unfortunately the current reports indicate these backroom discussions to form a coalition have been going on for a few days now (probably even longer), and there are also reports that they are intending to go through with it even after the Conservatives take the subsidy changes out of their mini-budget.

This has nothing to do with anything other than gaining power at any cost.

[Ronald Pagan]

Originally Posted by peter12

It was actually part of a mini-budget which included redutions of over 4 billion dollars.

So?

Only the most myopic Conservative hack would even tread to state that this was about anything other than partisan politics.

Are you saying that?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by fotze

hehehe

Yeah, I cringed when I wrote it too.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

So?

Only the most myopic Conservative hack would even tread to state that this was about anything other than partisan politics.

Are you saying that?

It was obviously thrown in there as a strategic blow to the other parties. But to say that it was just about partisan politics is false.

[flamesfever]

Hopefully, Harper and his gang come out of this a little wiser.

I think they screwed up on the way they handled the royalty trust affair - strike one.

They underestimated the affect of cutting the arts program in Quebec and missed their majority - strike two.

I hope this isn't strike three.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The problem with coalition governments is that it gives power to the lunatic fringe to demand more power sharing then they're worth. Giving the NDP the keys to the budget is not what Canadian's want. Allowing a panicked leaderless party to govern is not what Canadian's want under the current election rules.

Giving the Bloc the ability to have a say in national government policy is really what Quebecers want, but not Canadians.

Ultimately, I agree with you. I do not want to see a coalition government either. It pains me to even consider what the NDP would do to our budget. With the conservatives removing the financing clause, this all should be a mute point as the Liberals should ideologically support the majority of the proposals put for the conservative budget.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by ikaris

Ultimately, I agree with you. I do not want to see a coalition government either. It pains me to even consider what the NDP would do to our budget. With the conservatives removing the financing clause, this all should be a mute point as the Liberals should ideologically support the majority of the proposals put for the conservative budget.

I agree. If the Liberals go through with toppling the Conservative government, it proves that they are not concerned with the welfare of Canadians, but rather are more concerned with obtaining power.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

So?

Only the most myopic Conservative hack would even tread to state that this was about anything other than partisan politics.

Are you saying that?

While I'm sure you're right, would you be arguing the same way if the Liberals wanted it? Probably not.

The fact of the matter is that getting rid of the subsidy is a good decision. It puts the onus on the parties to actually bring something to the table on their own, if they want run for anything.

I mean, let's face it... Sure, it's all well and good to put a little checkmark beside a Green Party or a Marijuana Part, or whatever... but do you really think they're going to ever have any say or any impact at all in the Governing of this country? Do you honestly believe that it's anything other than just something to do for kicks and attention and maybe even a few dollars in their pockets?

Why should we have to pay for that? Would there even be a Marijuana Party if they had to raise their own money to do anything? Of course not, because they spend all their money on dope and make us pay for their campaign.

It's a good decision, and it's a fiscally responsible decision. We don't need another political party to vote for. What we need is someone who will lead one of the existing parties and this country in a responsible, honorable fashion. Someone who puts CANADA ahead of themselves.

Edit: The really interesting thing in all of this, though, is that the Liberals and NDP have 4 years until the next election. That's plenty of time to get organized enough to also get the same kind of public, financial support. They don't want to do that, though... because they want POWER NOW, not in 4 years.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by peter12

My question is simple. Did the majority of Canadians that voted for federalist parties chose to have a separatist party involved in making policy and forming budgets?

My question is simple, did the majority of Canadians that voted vote for the Conservatives to make policy decisions?

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by peter12

I agree. If the Liberals go through with toppling the Conservative government, it proves that they are not concerned with the welfare of Canadians, but rather are more concerned with obtaining power.

At this point I agree with you.


Both side are playing partisan politics and it is pissing me off.

Here's a novel idea, how about working together and getting a consensus before tabling some of this crap.

I know that works against the idea that each party knows best and all others are inherently evil. But I am hating when CPCs try and govern like they are the majority and dare other parties to take them down - that really strikes me as bullying. And I hate that it looks like the Liberals and NDP are more interested in getting power than actually trying to come up with better legislation. The petty bickering is have some serious consequences.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

My question is simple, did the majority of Canadians that voted vote for the Conservatives to make policy decisions?

No, they voted for a myriad of other left of centre parties that share very little common ground and who could never form a stable coalition government.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

My question is simple, did the majority of Canadians that voted vote for the Conservatives to make policy decisions?

Nope, but they did give the conservatives a stronger minority to run the house.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

My question is simple, did the majority of Canadians that voted vote for the Conservatives to make policy decisions?

Here's an even simpler question: Did the majority of Canadians vote for any single party to make policy decisions?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Here we are in the beginning stages of what may very-well be the next Great Depression and what are they doing? Instead of working together like the Conservatives asked for, they are climbing all over themselves to STILL try to wrestle power back into their hands.

The worst part, is their own parties are a complete mess. They don't even have worthwhile party leadership, so they have to turn to one of the most hated PMs in our history to help them... and yet they actually think they'll be able to lead Canada through the Global Financial Crisis?

They can't even lead themselves to the supermarket without spending taxpayer's money, and instead of recognizing that and working WITH the Conservatives, they are willing to throw the entire country under their bus just to get power.

The Conservatives knew what they were doing when they started this.

When you intentionally inserting a clause that you know is unacceptable to the rest of parliament when you only have a minority government you're either seeking and election or you're playing chicken. In this case, the conservatives were playing chicken and they lost.

I think the opposition is still playing chicken with the rest of the update, but I suspect they'll back down. Posturing for the next election.

It would be rather silly to vote down the government this soon over something that is actual fiscal policy backed up with a mandate, now that the conservatives have dropped their poison pill from the package.

[ken0042]

Just to add to this about the question of "did the majority.........."

In my lifetime there has never been a party who received the majority of the votes. Even Mulroney's 1984 landslide victory with only 2 other parties running netted them 49.9% of the popular vote. And that got them ~75% of all the seats.

With 3 or more parties running, you would be hard pressed to find anybody who gets more than 50% of the popular vote. Alberta provincial politics is the exception; not the rule. Unfortunately that is what we often see, so we accept that as normal.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by SebC

The Conservatives knew what they were doing when they started this.

When you intentionally inserting a clause that you know is unacceptable to the rest of parliament when you only have a minority government you're either seeking and election or you're playing chicken. In this case, the conservatives were playing chicken and they lost.

I think the opposition is still playing chicken with the rest of the update, but I suspect they'll back down. Posturing for the next election.

It would be rather silly to vote down the government this soon over something that is actual fiscal policy backed up with a mandate, now that the conservatives have dropped their poison pill from the package.

What it really shows is that Canada's opposition parties were ready to throw this country into political chaos over what they saw as their taxpayer funded financial entitlements. Unreal.

[Mccree]

Harper should now come out and say "Ok opposition you can keep your taxpayer funding but the Conservatives are going to donate it to Charity or not accept it"

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by peter12

No, they voted for a myriad of other left of centre parties that share very little common ground and who could never form a stable coalition government.

Well the ability to form a stable coalition government is something that I guess only you can determine. It seems to me that if the government falls over the lack of stimulus provided to the economy by a party that has pissed away a 13 billion dollar surplus, the GG has an obligation to see if these left of centre parties could form a coalition government before going to the polls.

It seems to me that very few people seem to understand the reality that the governing party needs the confidence of the House to govern. That is how our system of government works, the government is not the party that wins the most seats on election night, it is the party that has the confidence of the House. If the Tories lose that confidence by providing an inadequate fiscal update, or by not properly cleaning up election financing by eliminating 10 percenters, riding subsidies, tax credits for political donations, or for whatever reason the Loyal Opposition deems is appropriate, then they lose the confidence of the House, plain and simple. The GG then has an obligation to see if there is another party that can gain the confidence of the House. It is not like we do not have a precedent in Canada for this exact type of thing happening before....

[Ronald Pagan]

In other words...

Responsible government

Look it up.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Well the ability to form a stable coalition government is something that I guess only you can determine. It seems to me that if the government falls over the lack of stimulus provided to the economy by a party that has pissed away a 13 billion dollar surplus, the GG has an obligation to see if these left of centre parties could form a coalition government before going to the polls.

It seems to me that very few people seem to understand the reality that the governing party needs the confidence of the House to govern. That is how our system of government works, the government is not the party that wins the most seats on election night, it is the party that has the confidence of the House. If the Tories lose that confidence by providing an inadequate fiscal update, or by not properly cleaning up election financing by eliminating 10 percenters, riding subsidies, tax credits for political donations, or for whatever reason the Loyal Opposition deems is appropriate, then they lose the confidence of the House, plain and simple. The GG then has an obligation to see if there is another party that can gain the confidence of the House. It is not like we do not have a precedent in Canada for this exact type of thing happening before....

You do know what a government surplus is... right? Overtaxation. So we should be happy that the Conservative government gave us enough money BACK so that they now have to struggle with balancing the books instead of manufacturing surpluses through taxation. That's how a government makes its money.

They've only been constrained by the stupid attitude in Canada that it is not okay to roll back the size of our massive government. They should continue cutting the fat off of our already bloated government programs.