[PGT] Flames lose 3-1 to the Rangers

[devo22]

I really like Hanifin and Lindholm, but I've seen enough of this group to pivot to "trade them, no matter what". Re-signing them gets us nowhere and we desperately need to stockpile picks and prospects, especially given the fact that we have long-term contracts that are unmovable.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but the decision to go for a "win now" package in the Tkachuk trade as well as signing Kadri really effed this franchise for years to come.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Like the diligence done on Brouwer, Neal, Hamonic, etc? Either the Flames have some of the worst pro scouting on the planet or Treliving was simply going after guys that he personally liked and was making the calls mostly on his own. I feel it's probably a combination of the two as if pro scouting was good none of those moves would have been made unless Brad made a lot of moves without consulting others which is something Conroy alluded to. Truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

Scouting and analytics, no?

[flambers]

Flames just don't generate allot of quality scoring chances, very similar to last season,

Could be tough to generate offense, with this trend

Any news on Ruzicka?

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Not really, pretty sure as part of the half a billion dollar gift from the taxpayers the deal is that the Flames have to stay for 35 years after construction. Attendance could fall to 8000 a game and it would not really matter.

Because Murray Edwards is the problem, the Flames need to rid themselves of him. Terrible owner. Is it wildly unrealistic for the city to make a pitch to buy the team? We’d have to overpay, but it might be worth it to avoid the next 8 years of hell and then start a rebuild when it needs to start yesterday. Like, it’s so ####ing painfully obvious it hurts the soul.

[Saqe]

Kadri and Huberdeau are puzzling. Kadri with his tunnel vision and whiffing on shots but at least he skates the puck up the ice occasionally. But Huberdeau, I'm not sure it would make any difference if you take him out of the lineup and put someone like Zary in. Is he a net positive in any way? His goals are fluke ones which he isn't going to be repeating any time soon. He has one secondary assist and an assist on an empty netter. His passing is all over the place, he's not a threat to score, doesn't bring the puck up the ice and isn't great defensively. Let him sit a game, it really can't get any worse. His confidence is already shot.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Scouting and analytics, no?

The analytics were not good on any of those players at the time of acquisition though so it's hard to say what, if any role, it played in the decisions to sign/trade for the player.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Lots of people saying this team doesn’t have skill

I watched a lot of Florida. Huberdeau was *very* good and earned his 115 points

Kadri was a difference maker who had just won the Cup and played at 100 point pace. Never really cared for him but he definitely stood out in their Cup win

Both guys moved to mid 50 points last year. Something is wrong in Calgary. Very wrong

They looked a bit better last night even though they didn’t get the desired results. Hopefully they can turn this around

[TheScorpion]

The thing that's wrong is they're both now in their 30s, declining, and overpaid. It's not rocket science!

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

The thing that's wrong is they're both now in their 30s, declining, and overpaid. It's not rocket science!

I don’t disagree that longer term the contracts are horrible

But we are talking about not a decline, but immediately hitting a brick wall when they should be productive. Dropping entirely off the face of the earth* kind of stuff

* And isn’t disappearing off the face of the earth sometimes, you know. … rocket science?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Lots of people saying this team doesn’t have skill

I watched a lot of Florida. Huberdeau was *very* good and earned his 115 points

Kadri was a difference maker who had just won the Cup and played at 100 point pace. Never really cared for him but he definitely stood out in their Cup win

Both guys moved to mid 50 points last year. Something is wrong in Calgary. Very wrong

They looked a bit better last night even though they didn’t get the desired results. Hopefully they can turn this around

Kadri returned to virtual career point per game pace last season. The Flames errantly took his career season playing on a very strong Colorado team as an indicator of where he would be going forward. In actuality, he's a ~50-55 point 2C.

And for Huberdeau, is it not impossible that he lost a step? He's 30 years old now. I'm not saying players fall off a cliff once they reach 30, but Huberdeau was already not a great skater to begin with.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I made a similar comment at the time and the more time that goes by the more I’m convinced that Tre and his guys did little if any diligence on Huberdeau. Saw his stats and got wide eyed.

They knew what they were getting. Back when the deal was made and a lot of the media were raving about the return for Tkachuk, LeBrun got the anonymous reaction of a rival coach in the Panthers’ division. His comment was something along the lines of: “These guys (Huberdeau and Weegar) don’t scare us. We don’t worry about them at all.” Basically said they weren’t difference-makers.

The NHL is a small place. The scouting book different teams have on players aren’t all that different. Everyone knows who brings the juice and who doesn’t.

The Flames needed to replace a superstar, and Huberdeau was the closest thing available. It wasn’t a move made out of ignorance, it was a move made out of desperation to flip the narrative that nobody wanted to play in Calgary.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Didn't think it was possible, but I dislike this team more than last year's. Not worth the investment of time watching.

[sstrang]

I've been a member forever - and I'm here to read the content and enjoy. I NEVER post. That's how bad this team is. It feels like such a disorganized team when you watch them. I've noticed more defensive zone giveaways up the middle of the ice, bad (if not horrible) passing and just general disorganization in these first 7 games then I have since the early 2000s....


Thanks - I'll post again in 15 years

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Kadri returned to virtual career point per game pace last season. The Flames errantly took his career season playing on a very strong Colorado team as an indicator of where he would be going forward. In actuality, he's a ~50-55 point 2C.

And for Huberdeau, is it not impossible that he lost a step? He's 30 years old now. I'm not saying players fall off a cliff once they reach 30, but Huberdeau was already not a great skater to begin with.

Regressing from 115 points to 80-90 and from 100 point pace to 70-80 would be material, and would have seen this team do just fine

Calgary needs to look hard at how Huberdeau was successful and figure out how to get that level out of him. You’re right, he never dazzled with his edgework, it was his vision and he could just find guys. Even still, Florida played with pace and by comparison Calgary just don’t play consistently with pace

Can’t stress enough, you won’t hear me defending the term on either

[Erick Estrada]

I'm at the point where I think the Flames should look for a player like Duclair that had chemistry with Huberdeau in the past just to try and get someone on the roster that he feels comfortable playing with. He's not going anywhere so it's best to look for players that he can gel with.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Lots of people saying this team doesn’t have skill

I watched a lot of Florida. Huberdeau was *very* good and earned his 115 points

Kadri was a difference maker who had just won the Cup and played at 100 point pace. Never really cared for him but he definitely stood out in their Cup win

Both guys moved to mid 50 points last year. Something is wrong in Calgary. Very wrong

They looked a bit better last night even though they didn’t get the desired results. Hopefully they can turn this around

Kadri won his cup and got his retirement contract. He shut up the media who called him a liability in the playoffs. He doesn’t have any else to prove (although he did play better last night). Hubredeau is talented, but he’s not a the main guy you build your team around. The Flames are a team filled with complementary pieces and no main pieces

[MillerTime GFG]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Disposable income is tight these days. I don’t blame anyone for choosing to spend their money elsewhere.

The on ice product simply isn’t worth it. You alluded to it in an earlier post, but I get the sense that a lot of Flames fans feel no emotional connection with the team right now. When you rebuild you watch your young players grow and develop. You watch the team through the bad years because the young players give you hope for true future. Watching the Gaudreau/Monahan/Tkachuk teams have 50 win seasons and win their division was satisfying because you struggled with those players watching the roller coaster start to their careers. You followed them for years.

With this team it’s just a bunch of hired goons. I have no emotional attachment at all to any part of this teams core except maybe Andersson but he’s suspended. It’s really tough to care one way or the other. When I watched the Capitals game not only did I feel nothing when they blew the lead, I felt nothing when they scored. It’s bizarre. I’m filled with apathy towards this team and frankly the only cure I see for me would be if they sold, started drafting in the top 5-6 again, and gave me some hope.

The thought of the next 8 years of this team is dreadful. If they don’t get the ball rolling soon we could realistically be looking at 10+ years without a playoff team in Calgary.

Basically word for word, this is where I'm at. I don't have a connection with this team at all. It's never been less. At least in the Young Gun Era, there were....young guns. Something to look forward to.

We've got nothing in the pipeline to be excited about. Dreadful time to be a fan. Would rather be a Sharks fan, where they at least know what they are, with no obscene salaries. Two first rounders in 2023, two first rounders in 2024.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The analytics were not good on any of those players at the time of acquisition though so it's hard to say what, if any role, it played in the decisions to sign/trade for the player.

That’s an odd way to put it.

Those players were so bad it’s practically impossible to not also blame the analytics department. They should have shown up to the meeting in hazmat suits to make the point.

Also, you’re assuming the analytics you have access to were the models used internally. For all you know, the internal models pointed to upside.

I don’t see scouting or analytics escaping any blame the last decade.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

You nailed it. This is precisely where Brad went wrong.

If the player drives your team & offense, invest in them accordingly. It's not the area to hardball to save on cap space while you pay the supporting guys who don't bring as much to the table more than they're worth.

That how you lose good will and have it come back to bite you later.

It's even dumber when you consider that his dad is Keith Tkachuk. The guy who had multiple holdouts during his playing career and won each time. A guy who was always near the top of the league in earning while he played. No way in god damn hell he was letting his son get bent over by a franchise Keith himself had no affiliation with.

As for this game...well, glad I turned it off and played xbox instead when it was 3-1. Going to be tougher and tougher to care about games if this is what's on the ice. God help us all if both Hanafin and Lindholm get signed long term. Literally choosing to keep this entire pile of junk together for 6+ years is madness.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Like the diligence done on Brouwer, Neal, Hamonic, etc? Either the Flames have some of the worst pro scouting on the planet or Treliving was simply going after guys that he personally liked and was making the calls mostly on his own. I feel it's probably a combination of the two as if pro scouting was good none of those moves would have been made unless Brad made a lot of moves without consulting others which is something Conroy alluded to. Truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

He was going after who was available. Again, look at the other UFA signings in the years the Flames got Brouwer and Neal - they were almost all terrible. And the team that the Flames narrowly outbid in the Hamonic trade was the Leafs, who I’d wager spend more on pro scouting than any team in the league.

Filling out holes at top six forwards and 2nd pairing d with veterans is expensive. And the reason the Flames went the veteran route to fill out the roster around the core is because their drafting and development has been starved of picks and talent for years. It’s a self-reinforcing cycle born out of chronic impatience at the highest levels of the franchise.