Buy?/Sell?/All-in?/Tank? What should the Flames do?

[Major Major]

Very happy with how the team has been managed since the Sutter hire. Having a team this good is the joy of being a fan.

If Johnny goes, it will be sad, but I am going to enjoy this career year and see where things land. I personally think he signs but I realize that's not the common perception and is based on the same flawed logic that others are employing to argue the other way.

I think BT will look to add to this group. It may be difficult to land a massive piece... Probably more likely they get a couple lesser known guys to help push this thing over the top. Can't wait!

[theinfinitejar]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

lol

If the team clears out all its futures, it will suck for a very long time. This is not speculation. This is basic understanding of how pro sports leagues work.

Sucking for a decade is absolutely not a given. If you suck for that long you have bigger problems than whether you bought too much 10 years before.

[Heavy Jack]

Apparently the flames had a scout at the Chi-Van game and I’ve seen some write ups regarding this. Garland is a name mentioned but they also say JT Miller could be a player they would consider retaining on. JT Miller could be that incredible 2nd Center this team has been longing for and having him retained and fitting the 2 year window of Sutter is an incredible notion to consider.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

lol

If the team clears out all its futures, it will suck for a very long time. This is not speculation. This is basic understanding of how pro sports leagues work.

It’s not so cut and dry I mean look at the Oilers having 10 top 10 picks, numerous 1st overalls and the like and blundering all of that away. Buffalo comes to mind as well for having had riches upon riches but seemingly they have but mere flashes to show for it. The Flames find themselves in a really good position when it comes to the hockey they are paying right now and adding in a couple of pieces to push them over the top makes complete sense. This is a 32 team league, it’s competitive and some teams really have to jump at a chance when it presents itself otherwise mediocrity will reign supreme and that’s Calgary to me. Never willing to push the chips all in especially when it matters most. This is as good a time as any to load up and I’m confident the Flames are finally going to do just that which is exciting.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I am all for an all-in for this year, and acquiring many of the players that have been mentioned. We’ve got what it takes to win 4/7 games 4 times. Get the depth while you can.

We can worry about other things in the offseason. Assuming the worst, which is Gaudreau not re-signing, then I think it’s the perfect time to do a quick retool. Grab some bad contracts that have a year or two left and give a damn (basically more Lucic’s) and get some picks for 2023/2024.

Back to 2022, you’ve got to give it a shot while you still have Gaudreau at 6.75, Tkachuk at 7, and Mangiapane at 2.425.

[blender]

I honestly can't believe that anyone who doesn't think they should go all-in is a fan of this team.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

It’s not so cut and dry I mean look at the Oilers having 10 top 10 picks, numerous 1st overalls and the like and blundering all of that away. Buffalo comes to mind as well for having had riches upon riches but seemingly they have but mere flashes to show for it. The Flames find themselves in a really good position when it comes to the hockey they are paying right now and adding in a couple of pieces to push them over the top makes complete sense. This is a 32 team league, it’s competitive and some teams really have to jump at a chance when it presents itself otherwise mediocrity will reign supreme and that’s Calgary to me. Never willing to push the chips all in especially when it matters most. This is as good a time as any to load up and I’m confident the Flames are finally going to do just that which is exciting.

The Oilers drafted McDavid and Draisaitl six and seven years ago, and since have drafted their own 1st round pick every year (and every year since 2006, when they nearly won a title).

That right there is lunacy. They could’ve turned those six 1sts into defensive help, scoring depth and a #1G to play with two Hart trophy winners. If they had any sense whatsoever, they wouldn’t pick in the top 3 rounds for as long as those two
MVPs are in the fold.

But they don’t, thank Christ. So McDavid and Draisaitl will finish their deals in Boston and Florida.

[Bingo]

Having caught up I certainly get both sides of this.

They're not going to sell, the season is going to well ... Gaudreau won't be moved at the deadline.

But I also get the don't move huge futures if Gaudreau is going to walk angle as well.

Luckily the guy making the decision has a pretty good handle on the chances of Gaudreau walking and can make that call accordingly.

He doesn't like moving firsts for rentals though, but I think if we see a 1st move for a player with a bit of term it's a check for the Gaudreau staying box in my opinion.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

The Oilers drafted McDavid and Draisaitl six and seven years ago, and since have drafted their own 1st round pick every year (and every year since 2006, when they nearly won a title).

That right there is lunacy. They could’ve turned those six 1sts into defensive help, scoring depth and a #1G to play with two Hart trophy winners. If they had any sense whatsoever, they wouldn’t pick in the top 3 rounds for as long as those two
MVPs are in the fold.

But they don’t, thank Christ. So McDavid and Draisaitl will finish their deals in Boston and Florida.

And how would they pay for those players ?

In a cap world you actually need to constantly be replacing you non core superstars with cheap rookie deals.

The problem is the Oilers cant draft or develop ANYONE to play with those two, so they are left in a cap crunch and little talent.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Apparently the flames had a scout at the Chi-Van game and I’ve seen some write ups regarding this. Garland is a name mentioned but they also say JT Miller could be a player they would consider retaining on. JT Miller could be that incredible 2nd Center this team has been longing for and having him retained and fitting the 2 year window of Sutter is an incredible notion to consider.

I have a hard time giving up the required assets for a player that is rumored to be looking to get back to the states and likely also looking for a 7x7 deal at 30.

By all accounts it is the Flames 1st, one of the Flames top prospects (Pelletier, Wolf, Coronato) and some salary consideration but Vancouver won’t be adding any cap as Rutherford is looking at reducing their payroll so it won’t be Monahan going the other way.

Miller is a fit but I feel it would be one of those trades Canuck fans point out years later as a total win for them.

[Wish They Could Win]

The Flames have not really been a team to add high priced rentals at the deadline and they have not sold off assets when there is a good chance they are a playoff team.

Based on past history and their current position, they’re likely to add 1-2 middle six players with term well in advance of the deadline. I would say that they add defensive depth but that was already done at the start of the year.

I can’t see them doing anything extreme one way or the other, nor do I see them doing anything that doesn’t benefit the team both in the short term and near future.

Personally I would like to see them get a 2C/RW and a 3rd line winger pushing a guy like Ritchie out of the lineup and reducing the role of Dube until he proves he can produce. Dube may even have to be part of one of the trades. Hopefully Backlund and Monahan bounce back in the second half contributing to real contender type depth.


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[Bingo]

The upside of getting a guy with next year still on his contract is moving him as a rental if Gaudreau walks too.

You give up a first for say Miller, Gaudreau leaves, and then you move Miller next spring for a 1st and get back to the rebuild.

(Still think Gaudreau is signing)

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

And how would they pay for those players ?

In a cap world you actually need to constantly be replacing you non core superstars with cheap rookie deals.

The problem is the Oilers cant draft or develop ANYONE to play with those two, so they are left in a cap crunch and little talent.

By not doing stupid #### liking signing Lucic, Hyman, Koskinen etc to above market deals because they’re the best players willing to come there.

Edmonton could’ve put together a package for Lindholm. Or Reinhart. Lots of good young RFAs change hands all the time.

This idea that you need cheap players to fill out a roster around stars is false. If anything, you need to make hay while your superstars are on ELCs, or at worst their second contracts.

And even if you’re in a position like the Oilers paying 97 and 29 $21M, that’s 200 points in the bank right away with $60M left over.

If you can’t fill out a roster with $60M, the problem is in the mirror.

[Harry Lime]

In order non-roster depth on left defence : Mackey, Valimaki, Gravel.
In order non-roster depth on right defence : Stone, Kinvall, Welinski.

The last thing I want to see is a defensive depth player. That would actually make me turn on Tre.

In order non-roster depth on the right wing : Phillips, Lewis, Duehr, Pitlick, Ritchie.

If an acquired player is not a right handed right wing, then it is clear that the management team wants to tear things down for a rebuild. I would pick up two, or give Phillips 10 games in a row on the third line to prove himself, and probably still go out and pick up two.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Having caught up I certainly get both sides of this.

They're not going to sell, the season is going to well ... Gaudreau won't be moved at the deadline.

But I also get the don't move huge futures if Gaudreau is going to walk angle as well.

Luckily the guy making the decision has a pretty good handle on the chances of Gaudreau walking and can make that call accordingly.

He doesn't like moving firsts for rentals though, but I think if we see a 1st move for a player with a bit of term it's a check for the Gaudreau staying box in my opinion.

The only problem with trading for a difference-maker with term is those players typically have a cap hit of $5 mil plus. And that would make an already tough off-season for managing the cap even harder. Even if it checked a box for Gaudreau staying, it would make keeping and signing Tkachuk, Mangiapane, and Kylington even harder.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Apparently the flames had a scout at the Chi-Van game and I’ve seen some write ups regarding this. Garland is a name mentioned but they also say JT Miller could be a player they would consider retaining on. JT Miller could be that incredible 2nd Center this team has been longing for and having him retained and fitting the 2 year window of Sutter is an incredible notion to consider.

Miller would be huge. I'm not sure what VAN is looking for? It seems like one of their biggest needs would be a younger Tanev type (lol) - obviously not happening from us.

The other might be a burly but skilled guy to protect EP like Benn/Wheeler/Wilson/J Anderson, but obviously those are very hard to come by.

I struggle to think of a plausible package from CGY (unless maybe a 3-way). I wonder if NYR would consider something around Kakko or Chytil for Miller?

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Miller would be huge. I'm not sure what VAN is looking for? It seems like one of their biggest needs would be a younger Tanev type (lol) - obviously not happening from us.

The other might be a burly but skilled guy to protect EP like Benn/Wheeler/Wilson/J Anderson, but obviously those are very hard to come by.

I struggle to think of a plausible package from CGY (unless maybe a 3-way). I wonder if NYR would consider something around Kakko or Chytil for Miller?

Judging from NYR fans and pundits, the offer would be more around a first, Chytil and Lundqvist, which is still a pretty good basis for a trade. Kakko and Lafrieniere are off limits.

[Saqe]

If the Flames really want to go all in this year they should look for a known playoff performer to add to the roster. None of these young guys are going to move the needle enough, someone like Giroux would. Go big or go home, don't waste assets on mediocre guys.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The upside of getting a guy with next year still on his contract is moving him as a rental if Gaudreau walks too.

You give up a first for say Miller, Gaudreau leaves, and then you move Miller next spring for a 1st and get back to the rebuild.

(Still think Gaudreau is signing)

But to get a guy like Miller you likely have to give up something reasonably good besides the first to get that deal this year. So although you can recoup the first by trading him next year you likely do lose a decent prospect right now to do it.

I'm a touch Conservative when it comes to these things, but I don't know if these big time adds in season have a big positive impact. It tends to be more subtle adds to the middle of the roster that tend to help a team. The last couple of times that the Flames looked playoff bound they nibbled at the fringe of the roster on the back end. Forbort and Gustaffson ended up as regulars largely because Hamonic opted out of the bubble so that was a new third pair on defence. But they have not done much up front.

This go round, I think the defensive depth is likely enough with Stone, Valimaki, Mackey already in place behind what has been a very regular top 6. So that's where I think a more subtle add to the third line might be more liekly. But lot's of time for something to happen on the injury front that could shift needs and modify the shopping list.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Apparently the flames had a scout at the Chi-Van game and I’ve seen some write ups regarding this. Garland is a name mentioned but they also say JT Miller could be a player they would consider retaining on. JT Miller could be that incredible 2nd Center this team has been longing for and having him retained and fitting the 2 year window of Sutter is an incredible notion to consider.

Comedian TJ Miller is in Calgary doing a show in early March. Coincidence? Surely he will call his brother and give him a scouting report on the city