Buy?/Sell?/All-in?/Tank? What should the Flames do?

[Finger Cookin]

The Flames should add 3 all-star forwards and 2 all-star defensemen and an all-star goalie without subtracting from their current roster or mortgaging the future and then go win the Stanley Cup 5 seasons straight. Get' er done.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

That trade would only make sense to Philly if Monny was on an expiring deal. You would need to subtract him for that deal to have a chance.

Flames can't trade their 23 1st until Gaudreau is signed.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

So what's the best way to respond to all this? Should the team simply repeat the mistakes of its past? Or learn from them?

Yes.

I've been advocating for some form of re-tool/rebuild for years. At this point there is nearly nothing to rebuild around. The opportunity cost here might be starting the next upswing in 2026 instead of 2027.

The odds are heavily stacked against any course of action (only 1 team wins and another 3-8 are somewhat satisfied with each season; tear-down rebuilds fail more often than not).

The current build didn't suffer due to a lack of Gormley/Schwartz/Forbort (the 2010 1st from the Jokinen trade) as much as the lack of a Kyrou (Elliott trade) or even the failure to sell Cammi for what was in fact his fair market value.

[theinfinitejar]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

So you're fine with sucking for a decade (or perhaps longer) in exchange for one deep playoff run? I'm certainly not. What I'd rather see is this team become a perrenial contender, kind of like the run Detroit had from the mid 90s to the early 2010s. Or like the Bruins really since the late 60s. You don't become that by impulsively throwing away all your assets every time you think you have a shot at a Stanley Cup. You scout, draft, develop, and have patience. There are no shortcuts to success in this league.



This is all speculation on your part. You're pretending that you have a crystal ball and know exactly how everything will unfold. Reality is, no one knows for sure how prospects will pan out or whether this team's free agents will sign here long term.

Hmmm...

[1_Flames_Fan]

I think as hard as it might be if Johnny isn't going to sign he needs to traded before the deadline. We could get alot for him, although hampered by his trade protection a bit.

[Dude Where's Makar?]

Originally Posted by 1_Flames_Fan

I think as hard as it might be if Johnny isn't going to sign he needs to traded before the deadline. We could get alot for him, although hampered by his trade protection a bit.

So the Flames are competing for the division, have one of the most successful lines in all of hockey, and we trade him away before the show? This could kill the franchise for quite sometime. It sends a terrible message to our current roster, future UFAs we pursue, and the rest of the league.

Yes, it would be devastating for him to leave and get nothing, but that is our reality now. If he does leave, and we do need to rebuild, we still have many pieces that could return a giant haul.

[iggyloob12]

Originally Posted by 1_Flames_Fan

I think as hard as it might be if Johnny isn't going to sign he needs to traded before the deadline. We could get alot for him, although hampered by his trade protection a bit.

Ridiculous and would never happen barring one heckuva losing skid.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 1_Flames_Fan

I think as hard as it might be if Johnny isn't going to sign he needs to traded before the deadline. We could get alot for him, although hampered by his trade protection a bit.

Hampered is a bit of an understatement. If his 5 team list is crafted carefully he essentially has a full NTC.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by 1_Flames_Fan

I think as hard as it might be if Johnny isn't going to sign he needs to traded before the deadline. We could get alot for him, although hampered by his trade protection a bit.

There is no way that happens or makes any sense. You are looking at a Stone like return at best. We are 7 weeks from the deadline and more than 10 teams are completely out of the race. It will be a buyers market for sure which should benefit the Flames as they almost certainly look to add before the season is done.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The Edmonton Oilers have literally done this four times, and have nothing to show for it.

Far more teams have failed than succeeded with that approach. You need to stop fixating on the pattern you want to see.

Just because Edmonton and Darryl Katz are too inept to succeed with two of the best players on the planet doesn’t mean having two of the best players on the planet is a bad plan.

And virtually every team that’s won a championship since 2004 has at least one top 2 pick.

Carolina - Staal
LA - Doughty
Chicago - Kane, Toews
Tampa - Hedman, Stamkos, Lecavalier
Washington - Ovechkin, Backstrom
Pittsburgh - Fleury, Malkin, Crosby, Staal

St Louis is the outlier, but Pietrangelo was a 4th overall and Schenn a 5th.

Calgary’s top picks in the ‘rebuild’ were Bennett and Monahan, and the one franchise player we unearthed is a 5 ft 8 160 lb winger.

Doesn’t seem like we had enough.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Just because Edmonton and Darryl Katz are too inept to succeed with two of the best players on the planet doesn’t mean having two of the best players on the planet is a bad plan.

It isn't a plan at all. It was pure luck. Their total lack of any rational plan to go along with it has caused them to waste the opportunity that the lottery gave them.

And virtually every team that’s won a championship since 2004 has at least one top 2 pick.

Virtually every team has top-2 picks from time to time. Only two teams have never picked in the top 3: the Flames and Vegas. You can't prove anything by that, because it applies to losers just as much as to winners.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Just because Edmonton and Darryl Katz are too inept to succeed with two of the best players on the planet doesn’t mean having two of the best players on the planet is a bad plan.

And virtually every team that’s won a championship since 2004 has at least one top 2 pick.

Carolina - Staal
LA - Doughty
Chicago - Kane, Toews
Tampa - Hedman, Stamkos, Lecavalier
Washington - Ovechkin, Backstrom
Pittsburgh - Fleury, Malkin, Crosby, Staal

St Louis is the outlier, but Pietrangelo was a 4th overall and Schenn a 5th.

Calgary’s top picks in the ‘rebuild’ were Bennett and Monahan, and the one franchise player we unearthed is a 5 ft 8 160 lb winger.

Doesn’t seem like we had enough.

Detroit?

They picked 3OA (Primeau) in 1990 and 1OA (Joe Murphy) in 1986.

Pretty sure 3OA Brad Stuart was the highest picked player on their roster, and they only acquired him at the TDL.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

It isn't a plan at all. It was pure luck. Their total lack of any rational plan to go along with it has caused them to waste the opportunity that the lottery gave them.



Virtually every team has top-2 picks from time to time. Only two teams have never picked in the top 3: the Flames and Vegas. You can't prove anything by that, because it applies to losers just as much as to winners.

It applies almost uniformly to championship hockey teams in the modern era.

You need your top-3 picks to turn into stars.

Or you need two Hall of Fame defensemen in their prime.

But you really need your top-3 picks to be stars.

look at what happened to Florida once they started to draft Barkov, Ekblad and Huberdeau with top-3 picks instead of Nathan Horton, Jay Bouwmeester and Erik Gudbranson.

[iamca]

All in! My only trepidation is in relation to Tre and his past performance in adding pieces.

We need a top 6 forward and everyone knows this is the number one need, second is depth scoring.

We have plenty of bottom 6 options on the roster and in Stockton, so Tre needs to be concentrating on truly adding a top 6 forward… period.

Tre needs to list all expendable assets first on D and then any forwards (roster or prospects) and find a few willing trade partners. Tre has to give up some players to get a top 6 forward, who is either a sign able RFA or a player with this and at least a year or 2 after this one.

I am not a fan of Tre trading draft picks, but especially not any 1st round picks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Detroit?

They picked 3OA (Primeau) in 1990 and 1OA (Joe Murphy) in 1986.

Pretty sure 3OA Brad Stuart was the highest picked player on their roster, and they only acquired him at the TDL.

They’re an exception. They found two franchise centres in the later rounds, and they had arguably the best defenseman all time.

Missing on top three picks is death. 2/4 Oilers 1sts were Yakupov and Nugent-Hopkins.

That’s devastating.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by theinfinitejar

Hmmm...

lol

If the team clears out all its futures, it will suck for a very long time. This is not speculation. This is basic understanding of how pro sports leagues work.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

lol

If the team clears out all its futures, it will suck for a very long time. This is not speculation. This is basic understanding of how pro sports leagues work.

The team isn’t going to get perceptibly better if it loses its franchise player.

That happening or not happening plays a big role in the future of the organization.

[dino7c]

It's funny that tankers are so scared to suck down the road...when sucking is what they want in the first place

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by dino7c

It's funny that tankers are so scared to suck down the road...when sucking is what they want in the first place

I think what they're more scared of is losing a premium asset like Johnny and getting nothing in return.

That ship has sailed though. This team is too good to sell in the same season he is still an unsigned pending UFA.

You have to go for it, and then hope he re-signs at this point.

This should have been dealt with much sooner.

[tkflames]

All-in and then burn it to the ground if it doesn't work and Johnny walks.

However...I don't think all-in is that much given the current teams dynamic.
1. Pickup Pavelski or Hertl or Tofolli for futures (in that order of preference)
2. Grab Eric Stall as the 14th forward post Olympics
3. Grab a PP specialist Defenseman (similar to Gustavson or Kulak) and one big defenseman (Chiarot, Mason or similar)

If it doesn't work. Try to sign gaudreau, chucky and magiapane. If it doesn't work, dump 2 or 3 for large packages and tank for the next 2-3 years.