[PGT] We gotta fire the coach, oh wait and Tre better make some calls. Flames lose 5-3

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by 868904

The players didn't play well before Sutter even arrived. They had their "race track" coaches and failed too.

Darryl was a last resort and now we know for sure that it's the players.

I'm fine with tearing this team down to suit Darryl. It's not hard to build a Darryl Sutter team; he himself thinks some of the pieces are already here. It's harder to build the Tampa Bay Lightning.

The Flames should play Darryl Sutter hockey, even in 89, we had some skill like Loob, Mullen and Nieuwendyk, but they were surrounded by big bruisers and the other skills guys played a tough game (Gilmour, Fleury, Roberts, etc).

Big, tough, smash mouth hockey is the identity of hockey in Calgary. It's what the fans want and like.

I'm not sure why there is always an element here who wishes the Flames were the Oilers or Lightning.

Source for the bolded statement?

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by 868904

The players didn't play well before Sutter even arrived. They had their "race track" coaches and failed too.

Darryl was a last resort and now we know for sure that it's the players.

I'm fine with tearing this team down to suit Darryl. It's not hard to build a Darryl Sutter team; he himself thinks some of the pieces are already here. It's harder to build the Tampa Bay Lightning.

The Flames should play Darryl Sutter hockey, even in 89, we had some skill like Loob, Mullen and Nieuwendyk, but they were surrounded by big bruisers and the other skills guys played a tough game (Gilmour, Fleury, Roberts, etc).

Big, tough, smash mouth hockey is the identity of hockey in Calgary. It's what the fans want and like.

I'm not sure why there is always an element here who wishes the Flames were the Oilers or Lightning.

Good post.

[Pizza]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

I like chicken, I like liver, meow mix meow mix please deliver

this is so out of place, it made me lol in real life

thanks!

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by 868904

I'm not sure why there is always an element here who wishes the Flames were the... Lightning.

Because '18-'19 happened. It showed us the only way this group of players has even a ghost of a chance of being successful offensively... by playing that style of hockey. However, they've had their chances since then to show that they still have it, but have failed time and again. We're never getting that team back. If this team is going to retool to fit Sutter's style, I'm fine with that. The only thing that worries me is the thought of another decade of middling and barely missing the playoffs (or squeaking in and getting blasted in the 1st round time and again), while also missing out on quality draft picks.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Source for the bolded statement?

Go check out the Darry Sutter returns thread.

[1qqaaz]

People keep saying the Flames won't rebuild because "Sutter didn't sign up for a rebuild."

How does Sutter have any say in the matter? He either goes along with the rebuild, or he quits. I don't see how that impacts the strategic direction of the team.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Source for the bolded statement?

In the hey day, Cherry would spout off how Calgary was the biggest, toughest, one of the best teams in the league every Saturday night.

Built for the playoffs. Unlike this 25 man roster of Bouwmeesters and Butlers + 1 Lucic.

[Flamesforever99]

Hopefully Ottawa goes on a nice run and we finish last in the north

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

People keep saying the Flames won't rebuild because "Sutter didn't sign up for a rebuild."

How does Sutter have any say in the matter? He either goes along with the rebuild, or he quits. I don't see how that impacts the strategic direction of the team.

Im saying it and only because i have zero doubt it was discussed prior to him signing on.

They needed him more than he needed them. He would have his demands to do so.

If they agreed they wouldn't go full rebuild to get his signature on a contract, then they won't.

Like he said when hired..."unfinished business". That does not mean " i will be here through 2 years of tearing down with the club unable to compete", that just isnt his strength nor ownerships style.

[badradio]

If we do go full rebuild, I’d love a big team of goons until you can acquire better players through the draft. If they are going to lose anyways, might as well make it exciting with some big hits and nastiness and it fits under Sutter’s brand.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by 868904

I'm fine with tearing this team down to suit Darryl. It's not hard to build a Darryl Sutter team; he himself thinks some of the pieces are already here. It's harder to build the Tampa Bay Lightning.

The Flames should play Darryl Sutter hockey, even in 89, we had some skill like Loob, Mullen and Nieuwendyk, but they were surrounded by big bruisers and the other skills guys played a tough game (Gilmour, Fleury, Roberts, etc).

Big, tough, smash mouth hockey is the identity of hockey in Calgary. It's what the fans want and like.

I'm not sure why there is always an element here who wishes the Flames were the Oilers or Lightning.

Dear God, no. That approach didn’t work when Sutter was GM and there’s zero chance it would work today.

Let go of the past.

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by New Era

Playing a style of hockey not suited to your talent and you are certain to lose a lot more than you win. Calgary Flames in a nutshell since Treliving arrived. There has been such a disconnect in the talent the team has accrued to the style they are forced to play. Treliving has a garage full of cars meant for the race track, but then bought property out in the sticks, miles from paved roads. What's worse, he brought in a guy that likes monster truck shows and is expected to complete in Formula 1. Gee, I don't see why they would be losing so often?

You say that as if the Flames core hasn't already tried 20 different styles under 20 different coaches.

Flames fans kept begging for an elite coach just so we could know for sure whether it was the coaching or the players that were at fault.

Well, the Flames got their elite coach in Darryl. It's 100% clearly a player issue at this point and there's no arguing that.

[taxbuster]

So on the issue of conditioning, who's doing that now for the Flames? I remember Rich Hesketh from some years back (don't think he's there any more) but during his tenure, the Flames were generally in pretty good shape. Don't think he'd have let a "Johnny" live on the kind of diet we've heard about.

I've thought for a long time - starting back in the Colorado series - that the Flames look gassed half-way through games and just don't have enough oomph to compete. Size helps, too, and they are definitely on the smallish side and get pushed off the puck too easily and frequently. It takes a certain mental tenacity I'd think to stick to a regime. Not sure it's happening here.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

So on the issue of conditioning, who's doing that now for the Flames? I remember Rich Hesketh from some years back (don't think he's there any more) but during his tenure, the Flames were generally in pretty good shape. Don't think he'd have let a "Johnny" live on the kind of diet we've heard about.

I've thought for a long time - starting back in the Colorado series - that the Flames look gassed half-way through games and just don't have enough oomph to compete. Size helps, too, and they are definitely on the smallish side and get pushed off the puck too easily and frequently. It takes a certain mental tenacity I'd think to stick to a regime. Not sure it's happening here.

Ryan Asten is the person in charge now. Since 2014, prior to that, he was with the Kings.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

So on the issue of conditioning, who's doing that now for the Flames? I remember Rich Hesketh from some years back (don't think he's there any more) but during his tenure, the Flames were generally in pretty good shape. Don't think he'd have let a "Johnny" live on the kind of diet we've heard about.

I've thought for a long time - starting back in the Colorado series - that the Flames look gassed half-way through games and just don't have enough oomph to compete. Size helps, too, and they are definitely on the smallish side and get pushed off the puck too easily and frequently. It takes a certain mental tenacity I'd think to stick to a regime. Not sure it's happening here.

The Flames are 16th/31 in average weight, so you're right, but it's nothing crazy.

I will say this, ever since Ryan Asten came into the picture, the Flames have dealt with way fewer injuries. They must be one of the healthiest teams in the league over the past eight years or so.

It almost makes you wonder if conditioning and injuries are correlated to an extent.
There's probably a happy medium somewhere

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

The Flames are 16th/31 in average weight, so you're right, but it's nothing crazy.

I will say this, ever since Ryan Asten came into the picture, the Flames have dealt with way fewer injuries. They must be one of the healthiest teams in the league over the past eight years or so.

It almost makes you wonder if conditioning and injuries are correlated to an extent.
There's probably a happy medium somewhere

The Flames training staff to go along with the those in charge of the medical (Ian Auld, etc) are great at what they do. However, one has to wonder why there is a conditioning issue, my guess is the amount of off-season training to go along with lackadaisical practices.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

The Flames are 16th/31 in average weight, so you're right, but it's nothing crazy.

I will say this, ever since Ryan Asten came into the picture, the Flames have dealt with way fewer injuries. They must be one of the healthiest teams in the league over the past eight years or so.

It almost makes you wonder if conditioning and injuries are correlated to an extent.
There's probably a happy medium somewhere

I think fitness is off. But also when you talk about team size, you have to consider who is contributing to the averages. Over 6’2” and well over 200 lbs is sort of the “big” benchmark. So who on Calgary is over? The skillful players on Calgary tend to be smaller. Gaudreau, Dube, Mangiapane and Ryan are small. Lindholm is 6’1” and 195, as is Bennett. Monahan is 6’2” 200, so only sort of medium sized. Tkachuk just makes that cut too. Same with Backlund, Gio, Tanev, etc. Rasmus and Valimaki are pretty hefty, but on this team only Hanifin, Lucic, Stone and Ritchie are what I consider to be big guys, and only Hanifin is a skilled guy out of that group.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

In the hey day, Cherry would spout off how Calgary was the biggest, toughest, one of the best teams in the league every Saturday night.

Built for the playoffs. Unlike this 25 man roster of Bouwmeesters and Butlers + 1 Lucic.

lol ...^^They probably deserved this comment!

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by 868904

The players didn't play well before Sutter even arrived. They had their "race track" coaches and failed too.

Yeah, this is total bull####. And when I say total bull####, I mean so tightly packed that it's reached the density of lead. This team has NEVER had a coach who coached to the player's strengths. Peters let them play a more up tempo middle of the ice game for 3/4 of a season and they excelled in every way, finishing second overall. But just like the morons before him, and the morons that followed, he tried to get them to play "a more playoff brand of hockey" which is dump and chase and control the boards. That is not suited to this team. This team excels when you let them use the open ice and play in the scoring areas.

When you force this team to play along the boards you nullify the strengths of most of the players. When you drive play from the boards you force Gaudreau to blow snow just inside the blueline on every rush, you eliminate Monahan's strength of finding the soft spot in the high danger areas, you eliminate Tkachuk's net presence, and on and on and on. When the players are trying to generate offense from the wall - the lowest or low scoring areas - the results are quite predictable. Teams are so disciplined now that they won't chase the puck around the low danger areas. They will collapse down, clog the lanes, and wait for you to lose the puck, make a poor pass, or fire a low quality shot on goal, then transition and beat the Flames on the rush. Penetrating the middle of the ice is the only sure way to achieve success, but our mental midgets behind the bench don't seem to understand the way the league has gone. Watch the best teams play. They own the center of the ice. The Flames? They are concerned about owning the boards. It's ####ing pathetic and obvious why they are losing so often.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Flamesforever99

Hopefully Ottawa goes on a nice run and we finish last in the north

The Flames are a couple games away from being a bottom five team in the NHL this year. That is ugly.