[PGT] We gotta fire the coach, oh wait and Tre better make some calls. Flames lose 5-3

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by MacFlame

I think there's more bright spots than that.

Mangiapnne: Has solidified himself as a top 6 player IMO
Hannafin: Has solidified himself as a #3 defensemen IMO
Tanev:Exactly what you said

But that's it.

But honestly, determining that your top end players are not good enough to compete is a step forward IMO. It's clear now. It's not coaching. It's not because so and so isn't playing with so and so. Its simply that they're not good enough to compete with other team top end players.

No need to panic though. Those players need to go away so that a different culture (and different leaders) emerge. It'll happen.

I would add Lucic in there too, he's making that awful contract look not as awful - I've liked his effort and leadership this season.

[Jiri Hrdina]

In terms of disappointments I would argue the 91/92 season has to be considered. Just a couple years removed from the championship, and didn't even make the playoffs. And smack in the middle was the infamous Gilmour deal.
The only good thing was Roberts getting 53 goals.
But the team boasted Roberts, Macinnis, Fleury, Makarov, Nieuwendyk, Suter, Reichel, Otto, etc and still managed to miss the playoffs.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by MacFlame

Comments from Sutter over the past few days has me thinking he is not pleased with the fitness level of some of the players.

IMO, the biggest culprit of lack of competitiveness throughout this season has been Monahan, but its interesting to hear Sutter indicate that it's not a work ethic that is the problem (something I've been pointing at on a few on this team) but rather an inability to keep up to pace for a full 60. That's interesting to me.

By his comments though, he's clearly not happy with the top players (namely Monhan and Gaudreau), but seems to be a bit easier on Johnny than Monahan (though he is choosing his words carefully). There were a number of times last night that his inability to check closely on the opposition allowed for easy breakouts, scoring chances and goals. On that Simmonds goal for example, he failed to tightly check the high man. allowing for an easy pass to the front of the net..I thought that plays like that were a competitiveness issue, but Sutter seems to be indicating that he simply can't keep up.

Honestly something I hadn't thought of.

I find it a bit funny that people think that Sutter doesn't like Monahan, when usage has indicated it's actually the opposite.

Monahan and Gaudreau lead the team in ice time at 5v5 under Sutter.

1) Gaudreau - 191 Minutes
2) Monahan - 185 Minutes
3) Lucic - 180 Minutes
4) Mangiapane - 178 Minutes
5) Backlund - 178 Minutes
6) Lindholm - 175 Minutes
7) Tkachuk - 169 Minutes

He's also added Monahan to the PK rotation, and Monahan has the lowest xGA per 60 of all PKers right now, and hasn't been on the ice for a PK goal against.

1) Lindholm - 29:31
2) Ryan - 23:10
3) Backlund - 20:18
4) Bennett - 16:03
5) Monahan - 13:46
6) Mangiapane - 12:25

The player that actually seems to have fallen out of favor a little bit here under Sutter is Matthew Tkachuk. He's 7th on the team in ice time at 5v5, and doesn't seem like there is much trust there.

[Kovaz]

I'm curious if the lines that finished the game get a longer look:


Gaudreau-Lindholm-Mangiapane
Tkachuk-Monahan-Dube
Bennett-Backlund-Nordstrom
Lucic-Ryan-Ritchie


Mostly out of curiosity at this point - I've wanted a Gaudreau-Lindholm-X line to get a look for a while. Maybe swap Bennett and Tkachuk - put two wingers that can forecheck around Monahan and reunite Tkachuk-Backlund.

[MacFlame]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I would add Lucic in there too, he's making that awful contract look not as awful - I've liked his effort and leadership this season.

Good call. He's been one f the Flames most consistent forwards this year.

[FiveSeven]

Usually within a season I’ll walk away from a few games and look at the score later to see they’ve won and I regret leaving.

Well you know it’s bad when that hasn’t happened one ####ing time. Terrible metric to suck at.

[MacFlame]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I find it a bit funny that people think that Sutter doesn't like Monahan, when usage has indicated it's actually the opposite.

Monahan and Gaudreau lead the team in ice time at 5v5 under Sutter.

1) Gaudreau - 191 Minutes
2) Monahan - 185 Minutes
3) Lucic - 180 Minutes
4) Mangiapane - 178 Minutes
5) Backlund - 178 Minutes
6) Lindholm - 175 Minutes
7) Tkachuk - 169 Minutes

He's also added Monahan to the PK rotation, and Monahan has the lowest xGA per 60 of all PKers right now, and hasn't been on the ice for a PK goal against.

1) Lindholm - 29:31
2) Ryan - 23:10
3) Backlund - 20:18
4) Bennett - 16:03
5) Monahan - 13:46
6) Mangiapane - 12:25

The player that actually seems to have fallen out of favor a little bit here under Sutter is Matthew Tkachuk. He's 7th on the team in ice time at 5v5, and doesn't seem like

Don't disagree with Tkachuk, though Sutter has addressed that in press conferences. If you look at when and how Monahan is being used, I think you'd see it. Last night he was split from Johnny...Sutter specifically mentioned that this was because he was trying to get those two guys going. Monahan playing PK is an example of Sutter trying to find a new role for him and trying to get him into the game. Warrener talked about this exact ting on the radio show. He's not being placed there because he's the best option IMO.

I'm not saying that Sutter "dislikes" Monahan, but the way. But he's clearly trying to find ways to get him more involved...but nothing has worked yet. To use Sutter's words...he can't play with pace for a full 60.

[Monahammer]

Tkachuk might play more if he got out of his own ass and realized that shooting it between his legs makes him look like a peewee player. Puljujarvi looks smarter than this guy this year.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

In terms of disappointments I would argue the 91/92 season has to be considered. Just a couple years removed from the championship, and didn't even make the playoffs. And smack in the middle was the infamous Gilmour deal.
The only good thing was Roberts getting 53 goals.
But the team boasted Roberts, Macinnis, Fleury, Makarov, Nieuwendyk, Suter, Reichel, Otto, etc and still managed to miss the playoffs.

I came here to post about that year too. The team was still had plenty of top end talent, even after the Leafs robbed us of Gilmour, that we should not have missed the playoffs.

However, when you look at the history of this franchise... We're lucky to have won the Cup in 1989. This team is mired in perpetual disappointment.

[Robbob]

At this point I'm not even mad. The hockey gods have not been kind to the Flames and it seems everything that could have gone wrong has. I don't think this team will be in a similar point next year so they need to make this down swing count. The silver lining for me is that this is a short season with a few weeks left. I won't cheer for them to lose, but at this point it doesn't matter.

If they can graduate a couple players from the AHL, or Zary and Pelletier take that next step, it helps the team slot proper players instead of min contracts. Pretty clear this season they have been trying to jam a square peg in a round hole, getting the results you can expect. The hope is that you can get that game breaker in this draft so the Flames can start slotting playing where they should be playing.

Some of the core is young enough that a retool makes sense, you don't have to blow things up. What you need is progression from players, which didn't happen this year. Hopefully Sutter can help with that next season.

[Robbob]

I should add that if the right trade is there for any player, you take it. What I don't want is trading one of our pieces for a player with a big contract on the back 9.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

In terms of disappointments I would argue the 91/92 season has to be considered. Just a couple years removed from the championship, and didn't even make the playoffs. And smack in the middle was the infamous Gilmour deal.
The only good thing was Roberts getting 53 goals.
But the team boasted Roberts, Macinnis, Fleury, Makarov, Nieuwendyk, Suter, Reichel, Otto, etc and still managed to miss the playoffs.

How is that even possible? That is a legendary failure by a legendary franchise.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Have we had a single positive from this season?

I cant think of a single player you would say "Took a positive step forward" this year.

This year is a complete disaster unless we win the draft lottery !

Yes.

Lucic and Hanifin.

Ownership took a step forward hiring Sutter.

Our jerseys are amazing.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

In terms of disappointments I would argue the 91/92 season has to be considered. Just a couple years removed from the championship, and didn't even make the playoffs. And smack in the middle was the infamous Gilmour deal.
The only good thing was Roberts getting 53 goals.
But the team boasted Roberts, Macinnis, Fleury, Makarov, Nieuwendyk, Suter, Reichel, Otto, etc and still managed to miss the playoffs.

Sometimes for whatever reason things go south for good teams. We saw it with the 06/07 Flyers where they went from Conference finals the previous season to last overall and then back to Conference finals the next season. I don't think this team is as good as the 91/92 Flames or that Flyers team but they will probably be looked at as the most disappointing/underachieving team in the NHL this season.

[VilleN]

This is the season we were supposed to have in 2015.

[Badgers Nose]

We will get the 1OA and he will never play a game in this league. That’s Flames luck right now.

I blame Denis Wideman.

[Voodooman]

Originally Posted by Kovaz

I'm curious if the lines that finished the game get a longer look:


Gaudreau-Lindholm-Mangiapane
Tkachuk-Monahan-Dube
Bennett-Backlund-Nordstrom
Lucic-Ryan-Ritchie


Mostly out of curiosity at this point - I've wanted a Gaudreau-Lindholm-X line to get a look for a while. Maybe swap Bennett and Tkachuk - put two wingers that can forecheck around Monahan and reunite Tkachuk-Backlund.

I have been saying the same thing. I'd like to give Johnny a chance to prove himself again without the boat anchor of Monahan and a 4th line scrub. I feel like his effort has been better in the past few weeks, but I think Monahan could drag down pretty much any winger in the league right now.

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Mangiapane
Tkachuk-Backlund-Dube
Lucic-Monahan-Ritchie
Bennett-Ryan-Miscellaneous Plug X

And on the D, I'd pay real money to balance the pairs better

Hanifan-Andersson
Tanev-Valimaki
Gio-Miscellaneous Plug Y

Andersson has really regressed this year, and playing with Gio is a huge part of that. Let's take the top 2 D-men and get them mentoring the young guys. Their development supersedes Gio's desire to still be considered a top 4 d-man at this point.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Playing a style of hockey not suited to your talent and you are certain to lose a lot more than you win. Calgary Flames in a nutshell since Treliving arrived. There has been such a disconnect in the talent the team has accrued to the style they are forced to play. Treliving has a garage full of cars meant for the race track, but then bought property out in the sticks, miles from paved roads. What's worse, he brought in a guy that likes monster truck shows and is expected to complete in Formula 1. Gee, I don't see why they would be losing so often?

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

In terms of disappointments I would argue the 91/92 season has to be considered. Just a couple years removed from the championship, and didn't even make the playoffs. And smack in the middle was the infamous Gilmour deal.
The only good thing was Roberts getting 53 goals.
But the team boasted Roberts, Macinnis, Fleury, Makarov, Nieuwendyk, Suter, Reichel, Otto, etc and still managed to miss the playoffs.

Watching the Flames from day 1, there was never a single thought that the Flames would ever miss the playoffs! That season crushed me.

But what do you expect with that Bantam double A coaching staff in Risebrough, Baxter and Charron.

[868904]

Originally Posted by New Era

Playing a style of hockey not suited to your talent and you are certain to lose a lot more than you win. Calgary Flames in a nutshell since Treliving arrived. There has been such a disconnect in the talent the team has accrued to the style they are forced to play. Treliving has a garage full of cars meant for the race track, but then bought property out in the sticks, miles from paved roads. What's worse, he brought in a guy that likes monster truck shows and is expected to complete in Formula 1. Gee, I don't see why they would be losing so often?

The players didn't play well before Sutter even arrived. They had their "race track" coaches and failed too.

Darryl was a last resort and now we know for sure that it's the players.

I'm fine with tearing this team down to suit Darryl. It's not hard to build a Darryl Sutter team; he himself thinks some of the pieces are already here. It's harder to build the Tampa Bay Lightning.

The Flames should play Darryl Sutter hockey, even in 89, we had some skill like Loob, Mullen and Nieuwendyk, but they were surrounded by big bruisers and the other skills guys played a tough game (Gilmour, Fleury, Roberts, etc).

Big, tough, smash mouth hockey is the identity of hockey in Calgary. It's what the fans want and like.

I'm not sure why there is always an element here who wishes the Flames were the Oilers or Lightning.