Friedman: Flames a good fit for Kessel? - Page 12 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Vinny01 · 06-09-2015, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

It's implied, Jason. People saying "15th, Backlund and Klimchuck" are missing the fact that Toronto would be asking for Bennett or Monahan or Gaudreau. We all expect Treliving to tell Shanahan to go pound sand, but this is what they would want, and this is what they would ask for.

And that, on top of every other reason, is why we don't do it, and why we shouldn't even entertain the thought.

The Leafs are going to ask for elite prospects and young players but they simply won't get it. I agree that the Flamea should steer clear of Phil but when/if Toronto makes that trade the offer will be closer to a 1st, roster player in the 22-27 age range and a pretty good prospect but not a blue chipper

dammage79 · 06-09-2015, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattyC

Are you saying he HAS been held accountable?

If so, I want him even less. If he has been held accountable and told what he needs to do to contribute to overall team success and not just his own, and he still hasn't applied any of it, it is very worrisome. And it goes against the idea that Hartley, Gio et al may be able to help.

IMO, Kessel hasn't been and is not the problem. He does his thing and everyone else around him has crapped the bed on the ice.

Looking at production and ice time he's the one carrying the Leafs on his back without enough support. JVR is as close as you get I think and even the JVR was hung out to dry in the same breath. Without those two, man it'd be tough to think they'd compete with Buffalo.

EDIT: anyways, I don't think Kessel will ever be a Flame. But there are far too many negatives justified or unjustified flying around in here. And the truth is I think the Flames would be a better team with Kessel. Still doesn't make him coming to CGY a reality.

Jason14h · 06-09-2015, 03:16 PM

Odds of Trades from BODOG

http://www.tsn.ca/odds-posted-on-cha...rades-1.304018

And Bob weighs in

http://www.tsn.ca/video/examining-a-...trade-1.303901

Coach · 06-09-2015, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dammage79

IMO, Kessel hasn't been and is not the problem. He does his thing and everyone else around him has crapped the bed on the ice.

Looking at production and ice time he's the one carrying the Leafs on his back without enough support. JVR is as close as you get I think and even the JVR was hung out to dry in the same breath. Without those two, man it'd be tough to think they'd compete with Buffalo.

EDIT: anyways, I don't think Kessel will ever be a Flame. But there are far too many negatives justified or unjustified flying around in here. And the truth is I think the Flames would be a better team with Kessel. Still doesn't make him coming to CGY a reality.

I don't think you have to blame Kessel for all TOs problems to also think he isn't the type of player you want on your team. You say he does his thing and that's it, well for 8 mil into his mid-thirties, he damn well better do more than just "his thing". And the attitude that he just has to do what he does, is exactly the problem both with him AND Toronto overall. Everyone is just "doing their thing" and no one is doing anything for anyone else. Kessel's not the only one, that doesn't make it any better.

cannon7 · 06-09-2015, 03:42 PM

I think when preseason starts and guys like Poirier and Klimchuk are legitimately challenging for roster spots Flames fans are gonna say "Kessel who?" Poirier has all the speed, tenacity and skill to fill a Kessel-like role and better defensive chops at a fraction of the price. Not saying he's gonna score 30-something goals next season, but he certainly is capable of earning a top-six winger role out of camp. To assume we won't see young players challenging for roster spots this fall like we did with Gaudreau and Bennett this season is a mistake IMO. Especially if we're all too happy to trade them away for guys like Kessel.

Street Pharmacist · 06-09-2015, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cannon7

I think when preseason starts and guys like Poirier and Klimchuk are legitimately challenging for roster spots Flames fans are gonna say "Kessel who?" Poirier has all the speed, tenacity and skill to fill a Kessel-like role and better defensive chops at a fraction of the price. Not saying he's gonna score 30-something goals next season, but he certainly is capable of earning a top-six winger role out of camp. To assume we won't see young players challenging for roster spots this fall like we did with Gaudreau and Bennett this season is a mistake IMO. Especially if we're all too happy to trade them away for guys like Kessel.

It would be amazing if Poirier scored half of 30 next year.

Gaudreau was the first rookie forward to hit 20 since 1997, and all rookie forwards are unreliable defensively.

Not a fan of picking up Kessel, but not because I think we have someone who can do what he can nevermind a rookie. I don't think it makes sense for the future to spend assets for a "now" guy

BigTuna · 06-09-2015, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heep223

I believe last summer he was quoted a few times saying that he feels he doesn't have to work out much in the off season, and then coaching staff (or mgmt) affirmed that he's "special" and were OK with this because of his status (whatever that means). This was all on the record.

I don't know if that qualifies as a distraction, but it certainly doesn't seem like the type of attitude that would fit under Hartley and Gio's leadership.

He said he barely skated in the offseason. He didn't claim he was anything special. he was being honest.

And BTW a fact no publicized much" Kessel came into camp with the 3rd best fitness tests on the Leafs. He wasn't out of shape at all.

BigTuna · 06-09-2015, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I disagree with the bolded text. Ottawa had no first line talent and Silfverberg is not first line talent.

Yes, you need organizational depth. But LA has won the Cup twice while making significant trades where multiple potentially major assets went out in return for 1 major asset.

Reality is you need depth and high end talent. Silfverberg is depth talent, Ryan is high-end talent.

Yes, you need to be able to roll 4 lines - but your top 2 lines need to have high-end talent to compete with the opposition. You need game breakers.

Then why isn't he producing like a high-end talent? He has not looked that good since jhoining Ottawa.

I watched the playoffs. Silverberg did not look like any depth talent at all. He was terrific.

BigTuna · 06-09-2015, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T@T

A lot of players would get huge points if they paid no attention to any other part of the game and got preferential ice time, PP time to achieve it , just look north if you need proof.

Again, the Flames don't need an $8m player who would:

1) Tear the team apart
2) Is just plain weird
3) We just don't need him...period.

So Phil Kessel doesn't deserve a lot of PP time? When you're the most talented forward, you're getting a lot of PP time. that's no "Preferential Treatment".

To try to state Phil Kesel doesn't have elite talent is silly. How many wingers would be PPG with Bozak? You don't get those results from simply getting the ice-time.

Kessel had 36 goals, 60 points in 70 games at age 21 in a defensive system in Boston BTW.

FlameZilla · 06-09-2015, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Gaudreau was the first rookie forward to hit 20 since 2014, and all rookie forwards are unreliable defensively.

fyp

KootenayFlamesFan · 06-09-2015, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTuna

He said he barely skated in the offseason. He didn't claim he was anything special. he was being honest.

It was Carlyle that said it IIRC. I'll try to dig up the quote later, but Phil didn't say he was special, Carlyle was talking about Kessel.

KootenayFlamesFan · 06-09-2015, 05:05 PM

Here's what I was talking about BT.

Quote:

After everything that was reportedly said, Carlyle went out of his way to praise Kessel. He called Toronto’s leading scorer and highest-paid forward a “very intelligent hockey player” with “off-the-charts skill.” He admitted that Kessel is “given a bit more rope” to do his own thing, because “talented people have to have some freedom to take their artistic values and go paint the picture.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/...ple-leafs-camp

Interesting article to look back at. Man Carlyle and Kessel looked to have had a poor relationship.

BigTuna · 06-09-2015, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

It was Carlyle that said it IIRC. I'll try to dig up the quote later, but Phil didn't say he was special, Carlyle was talking about Kessel.

Phil did dit to not skating much as well. He kept talking about him and Boxzak vacationing together and fishing.

Street Pharmacist · 06-09-2015, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

fyp

Lol. How quickly we forget

AcGold · 06-09-2015, 05:12 PM

I don't get the criticism, he does his job well. He's not the captain, it's not his job to lead the team. It's his job to put up offensive numbers, and he does, in spite of the group he has around him. If a player has a role to fill and he succeeds in doing so he's done his job. Maybe he doesn't skate all the time, so what. Johnny is sitting in classes all summer and nobody is criticizing him.

Fire · 06-09-2015, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cannon7

I think when preseason starts and guys like Poirier and Klimchuk are legitimately challenging for roster spots Flames fans are gonna say "Kessel who?" Poirier has all the speed, tenacity and skill to fill a Kessel-like role and better defensive chops at a fraction of the price. Not saying he's gonna score 30-something goals next season, but he certainly is capable of earning a top-six winger role out of camp. To assume we won't see young players challenging for roster spots this fall like we did with Gaudreau and Bennett this season is a mistake IMO. Especially if we're all too happy to trade them away for guys like Kessel.

Poirier has a chance of making the team but probably starts in the AHL and Klimchuk virtually has no chance of making the team.

Vinny01 · 06-09-2015, 10:55 PM

Saw on HF a thread that offered Backs, Klimchuck, and Porier. From a Flames standpoint I would hate that deal. A 26 year old solid 3rd line C and 2 of our top prospects for a first line winger paid like a top line centre.

Leaf fans thinking they are going to get a quality player like Bennett are in for a big wake up call

robaur · 06-09-2015, 11:34 PM

I think if Backlund is included in the deal, and it involves Poirier....you do the deal.

Backlund is a projected 3rd line centre for this team....look at his numbers and realize that he is replaceable via other means.

Backlund, Poirier, another prospect for Kessel would be a steal for the Flames.

You would be adding a top 5 scorer to the team which already includes Monahan, Gaudreau, Hudler, Bennett, Giordano, Brodie, Wideman.

AcGold · 06-10-2015, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire

Poirier has a chance of making the team but probably starts in the AHL and Klimchuk virtually has no chance of making the team.

Just like Jooris and Bouma had no chance?

JohnnySkittles · 06-10-2015, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Saw on HF a thread that offered Backs, Klimchuck, and Porier. From a Flames standpoint I would hate that deal. A 26 year old solid 3rd line C and 2 of our top prospects for a first line winger paid like a top line centre.

Leaf fans thinking they are going to get a quality player like Bennett are in for a big wake up call

Huh?