Alberta PST discussion

[Red]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Resolute - there is a difference between PST and GST. One is the "Provincial Sales Tax" and the other is the "Government Sales Tax", where money goes to different levels of government.

Do not confuse the definition of tax with the definitions of PST and GST, which are two different arguments.

I also happen to think you're a smart, interesting chap.

Just for clarity, GST = Goods and Services Tax

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Red

Just for clarity, GST = Goods and Services Tax

Haha yeah. Whoops on me!

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Do I really care what kind of tax it is when I'm digging in my wallet to pay the $15 GST tax on a $300 item and perhaps another $15 to pay the PST?

Nope. The GST pisses me off now and a PST would most likely piss me off in the future.

You could choose to be ignorant and not care but your $300 item is likely cheaper if you had an HST versus a PST. Small detail for you I guess.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Do I really care what kind of tax it is when I'm digging in my wallet to pay the $15 GST tax on a $300 item and perhaps another $15 to pay the PST?

Nope. The GST pisses me off now and a PST would most likely piss me off in the future.

Would you prefer it just come off your paycheque right away?

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by nik-

Would you prefer it just come off your paycheque right away?

Actually I would since I'm against a PST but in favor of a graduated provincial income tax based on your income, instead of the flat 10% tax we have now.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Actually I would since I'm against a PST but in favor of a graduated provincial income tax based on your income, instead of the flat 10% tax we have now.

That's illogical.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

You could choose to be ignorant and not care but your $300 item is likely cheaper if you had an HST versus a PST. Small detail for you I guess.

Correct me if I'm wrong (which I'm sure you will) but won't I end up paying tax on more goods with an HST as opposed to a separate PST? Isn't that why BC trashed the HST and went back to separate GST and PST (I'm just asking because I really don't pay too much attention to what BC does ... but I thought thats what happened... I think)

[Canehdianman]

This has been a fun debate on which of you can be more deliberately obtuse.

Can we get back to the discussion now?

[mrkajz44]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Correct me if I'm wrong (which I'm sure you will) but won't I end up paying tax on more goods with an HST as opposed to a separate PST? Isn't that why BC trashed the HST and went back to separate GST and PST (I'm just asking because I really don't pay too much attention to what BC does ... but I thought thats what happened... I think)

In general, PST has far more exemptions (most notable being restaurants) and therefore HST would "cost" you more if you compared PST to HST directly.

However, the implimentation and use of PST is far more burdensome to businesses. Their increased costs due to extra compliance with the PST system is often passed off to the consumer anyway. With that factored in, HST and PST are much more even.

[Red]

Any one asked how much it would cost to introduce, maintain and then remove this temporary PST tax?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Red

Any one asked how much it would cost to introduce, maintain and then remove this temporary PST tax?

Irrelevant because it won't be temporary.

[GP_Matt]

It shouldn't cost much if it is an HST. That would be collected by the federal government and returned to the province.
PST on the other hand would require a new bureaucracy and such. As well, for businesses with HST all they need to do is change the rate. With PST they need to add a second system to track and account for it.

[Red]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

It shouldn't cost much if it is an HST. That would be collected by the federal government and returned to the province.
PST on the other hand would require a new bureaucracy and such. As well, for businesses with HST all they need to do is change the rate. With PST they need to add a second system to track and account for it.

Well,sat least they'd create jobs.....executive jobs....for their friends. Yay for more taxes.

[Sylvanfan]

I can't remember how exactly BC tried the failed HST because I basically left the province the day that it came about. Not so much due to the HST, more due to my lack of useful work skills not having any value in there as compared to my current locale.

The PST was a straight Sales tax. Services were exempt from PST. So meals out, golfing things like that were only GST. Within that several consumable things were exempt from PST. Examples were clothing for children under the age of 16. Although many 19 year olds bought clothes claiming to be 15, only to go to the liquor store for their next stop. I remember buying cleaning solution for my contact lenses which was exempt from PST, but subject to GST and hating that. So I can see why the separate tax is a real headache to administrate. Still it applied to fewer things than the GST which is why I believe people in BC disliked the HST so much. It was more efficient to collect and account, but it did hit consumers harder.

I guess the question is....Does Alberta want to introduce a PST, or a PSGT? If it's a Provincial Goods and Services tax, than it may as well be introduced as a HST. But I do think it would really hit lower income people hard. Just because you're poor, you shouldn't have to skimp out on your cheap hair cuts... I mean they could allow a high threshold HST rebate system for people...but you still look at a year of lag time between you paying out the money and getting your rebate.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by nik-

Irrelevant because it won't be temporary.

Sure it will. The tax will end, along with all humanity, in like 10,000 years when the giant meteor comes and clobbers Earth.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by chemgear

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/poll-shows...-pst-1.2194924

The results of a new poll, asking Albertans whether or not they want to see a sales tax implemented in the province, show that residents have no taste for the proposal.

The poll, conducted on January 18 from a test group of 3,184 Albertans, found that 73 percent were not in favour of a provincial sales tax.

The firm found that the idea of a PST came dead last against other revenue streams. The preferred method in the poll was an increase of user fees and sin taxes on alcohol and cigarettes.

It's daft to put the proposed options in those terms. Of course few people want to pay more taxes.

The real question is what services do you want to cut if you don't want to increases taxes. The Alberta PCs actually came up with a really smart and sensible online quiz last year where you could toggle different revenue and spending options and see the results. That's the way you need to get people thinking - in terms of tradeoffs. That's the way we think about our personal finances. The notion that public finances aren't about trade-offs - that's it's a matter of waste or lazy civil servants or going after the other guy to get revenue - is what got us into this mess in the first place.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Do I really care what kind of tax it is when I'm digging in my wallet to pay the $15 GST tax on a $300 item and perhaps another $15 to pay the PST?

Nope. The GST pisses me off now and a PST would most likely piss me off in the future.

Well, we could just go back to having taxes included in sticker price. Problem solved!

[Raekwon]

Originally Posted by SebC

Well, we could just go back to having taxes included in sticker price. Problem solved!

But then everything would be so much more expensive

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Sure it will. The tax will end, along with all humanity, in like 10,000 years when the giant meteor comes and clobbers Earth.

meteor tax

[SebC]

An interesting article in the context of this discussion: http://www.vox.com/2015/1/16/7545509/inequality-waste

A PST (VAT) is the preferred source of revenue for some, because it is economically efficient. Other prefer income tax, because it can be implement progressively. The article I linked to discusses a progressive consumption tax, and talks about the benefits it might incur in reducing waste and even increasing happiness.