Toronto collapses again, still suck.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I have seen nothing to indicate that. Kessel is one of the elite wingers in the game, would take him on the Flames anyday.

Well I saw his offence totally dry up when his team needed him the most...not saying he's a bad player but if you are gonna have an 8 million dollar player he better come to play when it counts.

[t0rrent98]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Well I saw his offence totally dry up when his team needed him the most...not saying he's a bad player but if you are gonna have an 8 million dollar player he better come to play when it counts.

His offense dried up after the Olympics. Probably upset that his sister got a medal and not him.... LOL.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by dino7c

is he really the guy you want to go to war with as your best player though? seems to disappear when it counts.

This is silly. He's been very good in the playoffs.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Canes give up Sutter (11 ov pick), 8th ov pick, and Dumoulin (very good defence prospect) for Staal.
I expect they would need same sort of return.

But his value has changed. He now has a huge contract and has been exposed more in Carolina.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

No, you said a bunch of absurd and nonsensical things (I have stronger language but in light of moderation standards I'll let you use your imagination), which was so awful in content and so varied that it's not easy to simply say "here's where you're wrong, let's get back to making sense".

I'm prepared to accept that people will disagree with my views on particular hockey players and my priorities in analyzing them and we can discuss that. Your analysis in contrast is complete garbage start to finish. You basically dropped a bull**** bomb. And here's yet another example:

Take Kessel off of the Leafs and put him on the St. Louis Blues. Now the St. Louis Blues are a team with Kessel as its top forward. Hey look, they're really impressive!

EDIT: See I don't even know how to fully respond to how completely ridiculous this ONE comment is. Now I'm thinking, flashback to 2005-2006! Sidney Crosby scores 102 points as a rookie and the Penguins finish last in the eastern conference 58 points (for reference the Oilers' worst showing was 62 post lockout). Quoth Moon, "I've seen what a team with Crosby as it's top forward looks like and it is not very impressive"?

This is a good point. If Kessel was still on Boston do they become a bad team suddenly. They were solid with him, and he was +23 his last season there and no one made him the poster-boy for being "One-Dimensional".

[bubbsy]

i consider myself a big kessel hater but he was amazing this past year. easily one of the most electric players in the entire league.

His offense dried up at the same time the whole team went to crap.

[19Yzerman19]

I mean I'm not saying Kessel is a two-way forward of any note, but he's not a liability out there... meanwhile, 13 goals in 22 career playoff games? That's really damned good. Over an 82 game schedule that's almost a 50 goal pace. In the playoffs. Against top teams. His career high is 37. Where's this "disappears when it counts" thing coming from?

[Fire]

Kessel is a talented player but if your team is lead by Phaneuf and Kessel do you really expect to win a Cup? Those two don't exactly inspire their teammates.

That's why it's crucial you have good leaders among your top players. Ovechkin is talented but not a leader.

The Flames are lucky to have Monahan. If they can obtain a couple more quality young leaders they will be in great shape.

[Aarongavey]

What is Kessel's playoff production like compared to Iginla's? They seem like similar playoff players to me.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

What is Kessel's playoff production like compared to Iginla's? They seem like similar playoff players to me.

Kessel has 15 goals, 21 points in 22 playoff games. He's been excellent.

[19Yzerman19]

^No, you've said that twice now and it's wrong; the first time I assumed it was a typo. 13 goals, 8 assists.

[Aarongavey]

I do not think you win with Kessel but he is not horrible, in terms of production he is similar to Iggy, puts up his points in the playoffs but for whatever reason whether it is their fault or someone else's they do not win in the playoffs.

[Poe969]

I just want to see reimer say something about the leafs being so-so this year and laugh about it and never have to play for the leafs again

[savemedrzaius]

Imagine if Kessel was on a decently coached team and didn't have to start so many times in the defensive zone. If they don't fire Carlyle I might be done with this team.

Skater Defensive Zone Starts Points
Boyd Gordon 542 21
Jay McClement 506 8
Paul Gaustad 439 16
Phil Kessel 431 76
Marcus Kruger 416 27
One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong...

http://beta.thescore.com/news/462103

[FireGilbert]

Kessel is one of the best goal scorers in the league and I would love him on the Flames. The problem with the Leafs is they have very little scoring depth and a weak defence. All you have to do to beat the Leafs is shut down the Kessel line and match your top line against Phaneuf.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

Imagine if Kessel was on a decently coached team and didn't have to start so many times in the defensive zone. If they don't fire Carlyle I might be done with this team.




http://beta.thescore.com/news/462103

If you don't start Kessel in the D zone he'll never start!!

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

Imagine if Kessel was on a decently coached team and didn't have to start so many times in the defensive zone. If they don't fire Carlyle I might be done with this team.




http://beta.thescore.com/news/462103

There's so many problems with Carlyle. He's killing Phaneuf and Gunnarsson. They desperately need help. He plays his 4th line less than any coach in the entire NHL. His team is gassed because of how he coaches.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

^No, you've said that twice now and it's wrong; the first time I assumed it was a typo. 13 goals, 8 assists.

Points were right, goals was off.

[jg13]

David Clarkson ended up being suspended for a higher number of games this season (12) than points he scored (11)

5.25 million dollars through 2020.

[maxpower29]

I came across this site and after reading a few post I felt I had to join in because most of the comments are just ridiculous and clear hate towards a team some have no clue how it is being built.
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1. You should be lucky to have Burke in your organization. He was only fired because the new owners did not like him. Not only did he get Phaneuf, Lupul, Gardiner, Ashton (was Aulie), and JVR for basically nothing, you guys have no clue to depth drafting he has done and those players are great in the AHL now, and will soon to be NHL players. Look up Josh Leivo, Greg Mckegg, Petter Granberg, Stuart Percy, Matt Finn, and theres other who were mid to late round picks who have bright futures.
Burke completely rebuilt the management, coaching, players, and drafted players to develop in the 3-4 years he was here. When he took over, it was a disaster (nothing different then what your Flames have if you want to admit it or not) and made something good out of it.
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2. Kessel. He is one of the best offensive players in the league, and until recently has played with 3rd line players his career. He makes Tyler Bozak (a guy who was never drafted and probably a good 3rd line player on an team) a #1 centre and still produces at PPG pace. You pay him 8 mil a season because if you dont, you lose him for nothing. Explain how that would make sense? In a few seasons when your younger players start getting close to UFA years, you will understand I guess because you either pay or watch walk away.
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3. Playoffs. This team is still the 5th youngest team statistically in the league. They were also considered to be a playoff bubble team all season, and thats what they ended up being. The final 2-12 run was a joke, but the 15-4-2 before it was also much better then expected. Another year for Rielly (still a 20 year old rookie remember) Gardiner 23, Kadri 23, and Bernier who just finished his first year as a started will only do good, and you get to add another 8th overall pick to the group. Im happy with that success as a fan.
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4. Phaneuf. Nobody is arguing he is a top #1 defense on every team in the league. But is he a 1-2 on most teams? Yes. He was one of the top defencemen in the East until March when he injured his shoulder, and thats when his play really went down. At that point he was +21 playing against top lines of Crosby, OV, Giroux and other really good players.
His cap hit now, I think most of you guys are completely delusional to how it works as a team. The number does not matter, it the piece of the pie you take yourself.
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2008-2009
6.5 mil was 11.5% of the total team cap limit. That contract was too high, not by a lot, but the GM did make a mistake (which led to the trade)
2014-2015
7 mil is 9.8% of the total cap hit, comparable to about 5.5 mil back in 2008-2009. Would 5.5 mil be a better number in 2008-2009? for sure, and he likely would not have been traded if so. So he took a salary cap cut in the end.
If you think another team in the league would not pay 7+ mil to get Phanuef for free as a UFA your completely wrong, or just an idiot.

5. Being out shot all year was not the teams decision, it was a coaching decision. Randy Carlyle plays this way. His strategy. He clogs up the middle of the ice, and lets teams fire away from where ever, but tries to keep the the prime scoring areas to a minimum.
I dont agree with this and think hes a horrible coach for the team, but thats just how it is this year. Their defence is not as wasted as casual fans want to think, and with a new coach it will be different.
When Ron Wilson coached them, it was never this way, but they still lost games. Difference was he did not have half the talent on the roster today.

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6. As much as you want to think the Leafs are in a terrible position, your Flames are WAY further behind in a rebuild, and the leafs are likely 1-2 years away from being a sure playoff team with more drafting/trades, and a new coach.
I really like the Flames, I like their drafting and the fact they understand it takes time to recoup the lost assets from not trading away UFA players or older assets at trade deadlines (this is 2008 Maple Leafs 2.0). I always cheer for them ESPECIALLY when they play the ####ing Oilers, who i swear to god if I hear "Should be the Oilers breakout year" im going to smash my TV.
I think you fans should show a bit more love for a team who is in the same position as your organization, and want to see them succeed because if not, your team will likely not either as they are built the same way.