Article statement is correct. Primary target would still show (though a flock of birds could also show as a primary target) but nuking the transponder (by pulling the breaker, or whatever other means) would kill ADS-B as well.
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Originally Posted by T@T
Turning off the transponder doesn't make a plane invisable to radar, it's for identifying them.
Invisible to secondary, not to primary. They are often co-located.
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Says the plane was equipped with ACARS (so the same as air France?)
Everybody has ACARS. WestJet, Air Canada, everybody. Whether or not the ACARS system automatically relays information is another matter. Malaysia's apparently does not.
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But over longer distances where radar coverage is limited – ie usually when planes are flying across oceans – they use another system, Automatic Dependent Surveillance. Here the aircraft transmits its own signal and gives its position via satellites. Maclean says: "Once you go outside primary radar coverage, which would normally be about 100 miles offshore maximum, you are relying on the plane to be transponding."
ADS-B has very limited coverage right now. In Canada the only place is Hudson Bay. Over most oceans there is no radar coverage. ATC rely on position reports from pilots. Example: "New Zealand 83 is position ANULI at time 1002, flight level 350, estimating VIROG at 1042, IGEVO next."
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Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3
All I saw was Godzilla.
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Although they've suspended press releases indefinitely...
Here's a Media Statement from 45 minutes ago.
(No significant updates and instead they rehash old news)
Spoiler!
As we enter into Day 4, the aircraft is yet to be found.
The search and rescue teams have expanded the scope beyond the flight path. The focus now is on the West Peninsular of Malaysia at the Straits of Malacca. The authorities are looking at a possibility of an attempt made by MH370 to turn back to Subang. All angles are being looked at. We are not ruling out any possibilities.
The last known position of MH370 before it disappeared off the radar was 065515 North (longitude) and 1033443 East (latitude).
The mission is aided by various countries namely Australia, China, Thailand, Indonesia, Singapore, Vietnam, Philippines and the United States of America. The assets deployed to cover the search and rescue is expensive. In total there are nine aircraft and 24 vessels deployed on this mission.
Apart from the search in the sea, search on land in between these areas is also conducted.
The search and rescue teams have analysed debris and oil slick found in the waters. It is confirmed that it does not belong to MH370.
The B777-200 aircraft that operated MH370 underwent maintenance 10 days before this particular flight on 6 March 2014. The next check is due on 19 June 2014. The maintenance was conducted at the KLIA hangar and there were no issues on the health of the aircraft.
The aircraft was delivered to Malaysia Airlines in 2002 and have since recorded 53,465.21 hours with a total of 7525 cycles. All Malaysia Airlines aircraft are equipped with continuous data monitoring system called the Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS) which transmits data automatically. Nevertheless, there were no distress calls and no information was relayed.
Malaysia Airlines has a special task force to take care of families. Mercy Malaysia and Tzu Chi and others are also helping Malaysia Airlines by providing special psychological counseling to families and also the MH crew.
The Chinese government officials in Malaysia are also working closely with Malaysia Airlines. A representative from the embassy is stationed at the Emergency Operations Centre to assist with the emergency management and matters related to families in Kuala Lumpur.
In Beijing, the Prime Minister’s special envoy to China, Tan Sri Ong Ka Ting is there to assist and coordinate all operational matters with Malaysia Airlines.
We regret and empathise with the families and we will do whatever we can to ensure that all basic needs, comfort, psychological support are delivered. We are as anxious as the families to know the status of their loved ones.
To the families of the crew on-board MH370, we share your pain and anxiety. They are of the MAS family and we are deeply affected by this unfortunate incident.
Malaysia Airlines reiterates that it will continue to be transparent in communicating with the general public via the media on all matters affecting MH370.
But over longer distances where radar coverage is limited – ie usually when planes are flying across oceans – they use another system, Automatic Dependent Surveillance. Here the aircraft transmits its own signal and gives its position via satellites. Maclean says: "Once you go outside primary radar coverage, which would normally be about 100 miles offshore maximum, you are relying on the plane to be transponding."
Admittedly I didn't read the article, apparently that part of the world still has somewhat stoneage radar coverage and rely on satellites to track the transponders.
Sorry, I was responding when you said "if the transponder was "turned off" and they went to an altitude under 29,000 feet, they would not have been visible to radar?"
I find it bizarre the radar systems over there only do 1 minute pulse looks for tracking high allitude aircraft.
Bottom line is, no matter how they do it, we need a universal system to keep track of these planes at all times. If you think about it, to this day and age, to not know where a plane is with 200+ people on board is at all times is insane. And now they're not even sure what body of water it's in.
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Bottom line is, no matter how they do it, we need a universal system to keep track of these planes at all times. If you think about it, to this day and age, to not know where a plane is with 200+ people on board is at all times is insane. And now they're not even sure what body of water it's in.
Exactly, this thing might have pulled a "Hudson River" type landing a mile off shore but because of no help everyone drowns.
The search and rescue teams have expanded the scope beyond the flight path. The focus now is on the West Peninsular of Malaysia at the Straits of Malacca. The authorities are looking at a possibility of an attempt made by MH370 to turn back to Subang. All angles are being looked at. We are not ruling out any possibilities.
Okay this is getting more bizarre. They are now shifting the focus to the west side of Malaysia. So this 777 would've had to take a left turn and fly another 30-40 mins unnoticed.
Listening to the 9/11 tapes in their entirety is a pretty jarring experience. You can hear the pilots of United 93 screaming "mayday" as they're getting stabbed. The sorrow and sadness in all of the controllers voices and how they're able to keep it together on obviously the worst day of their lives. Hearing them contemplate authority to shoot down their own planes. Horrifying.
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Confererance relates to the police investigation I guess. Not discussing the search.
Looking at 4 possibilties:
-Hijacking
-Sabotage
-Psychological problem with crew
-Problem with people on board (insurance scam, etc.)
(Note: Doesn't mention mechanical problems, probably because this is the criminal investigation only)
- Checking background of all people on board
- The 19yr old Iranian is not believed to be a part of a terrorist group and was believed to be emigrating
- The other illegal passport holder is still being investigated
- In reply about the 5 people that didn't check in "There is no such thing". 100% false.
- English media members are mad that questions are being asked and answered in non-english language (seriously)
Really really weird press conference. There is some laughter and the two (Immigration officer & Police Chief?) at the podium crack the odd smile like they are enjoying this.
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Last edited by BlackArcher101; 03-11-2014 at 01:35 AM.
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Everybody has ACARS. WestJet, Air Canada, everybody. Whether or not the ACARS system automatically relays information is another matter. Malaysia's apparently does not.
Interesting if true, this update was on AvHerald today:
On Mar 11th 2014 the airline reported that the aircraft had accumulated 53,465 flight hours in 7,525 flight cycles since its delivery to Malaysia Airlines in 2002. The aircraft has last undergone maintenance on Feb 23rd 2014. All Malaysia Airlines aircraft are equipped with ACARS transmitting monitoring data automatically. However, no distress call and no information was relayed. The search area has been extended and includes the Strait of Malacca west of Malaysia looking at the possibility that the aircraft may have turned back and diverted to Subang (Malaysia)
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To me, the fact that they're searching west of Kuala Lampur means they're quite sure it's sabotage or hijack, because I see no reason for the plane to be over there (such a massive deviation from its flight plan) unless something went horribly wrong.
Interesting that he's claiming that all passengers who booked tickets on the flight were on board. Seems like a pretty pointless thing to lie about since they supposedly removed all the baggage front he plane.
1. Total sudden loss of all electrical power. Transponder, ACARS, radios stop functioning. Screens go blank. Pilots relying on very limited information to keep the plane airborne. Start turning back towards KL but become disoriented and end up on the west side of the peninsula and then end up crashing into the water over there somewhere.
2. Intentionally turning off all tracking equipment (transponder,ACARS) then attempting to avoid radar, heading west then flying for who knows how long to who knows where.
On Mar 11th 2014 Malaysia's Air Force reported their primary radar data suggest, the aircraft may have turned west over the Gulf of Thailand at about 1000 meters/3000 feet below the original flight level (editorial note: another possible interpretation could be: at 1000 meters of height compared to 10000 meters original level) and flown past the east coast near Khota Baru and the west coast of Malaysia near Kedah, the radar return was last seen at 02:40L near Pulau Perak in the Straits of Malacca, about 285nm westsouthwest of the last known (secondary) radar position. Local Police at Khota Bharu confirmed a number of locals reported lights and a low flying aircraft at Khota Bharu at an estimated height of 1000 meters/3000 feet.
