He was saying that if you are going out there with the intent of starting something...go after a guy that matters to them and hope he gets turfed as well...(paraphrasing here) and in that line of thinking...it made sense.
Compounding the problem though is that Carlyle had Kessell out there at that time in a game that quite literally meant nothing. Strange move by him.
It really doesn't make sense. That's why the riot started. Going after a skill player who doesn't fight never makes sense other than to get the other team intensely pissed off.
It's not like it was a goon fighting a skilled guy in the previous fight, it was two borderline players trying to make a name for themselves. It went bad for one of them...end of story.
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Tropp is no angel. No one suggests he is, but he he was clearly out of his weight class. Give the guy credit. He took on a pure goon. He got his ass handed to him, but he still showed up. More than we can say for Kessel.
Wow, that video was really damning. Tropp got laid out and teammate took the guy out. Notice who got penalized. Also, the "two-hander" you mention was barely a tap. It wasn't like Kessel's Barry Bonds impersonation.
Right, so minor that he was suspended for the season As for who was penalized, Tropp got 5 for slashing, 2 10's and a double game disqualification. So there's that.
Anyways, any argument that there was anything that needed to be responded to is ridiculous. Tropp willingly got into a fight in which he held his own and was unfortunately hurt. What about that scenario justifies any response from Buffalo?
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When you do a signature and don't attribute it to anyone, it's yours. - Vulcan
"That literally might be the safest option a guy like Kessel has to defend himself?"
It's been pointed out several times that the first slash may be understandable, but the second one was a cheap shot. That blog is either poorly written, or this Justin Bourne doesn't get the concept of reasonable force.
Kadri says Lupul stopped him from jumping over the boards last night during brawl
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The Quest stands upon the edge of a knife. Stray but a little, and it will fail, to the ruin of all. Yet hope remains while the Company is true. Go Flames Go!
Anyways, any argument that there was anything that needed to be responded to is ridiculous. Tropp willingly got into a fight in which he held his own and was unfortunately hurt. What about that scenario justifies any response from Buffalo?
You would have to ask Buffalo, but I suspect the size differential, the type of players, and the fact the kid got hurt. We've seen this happen time and again in the NHL, even from our own Flames. Prior to the cup run one of the most talked about moments for the Flames was the brawl against the Ducks. Was any of that justified? At the time there were plenty of people saying it was justified, and damn entertaining. No difference then as there is now. One team was not happy with the actions of the other so they sent a message. Your monster goon just hurt one of our guys so we're going to send our goon out to have at one of your guys. The stupid thing was sending your top line out there when you know what is coming and you have last change.
You would have to ask Buffalo, but I suspect the size differential, the type of players, and the fact the kid got hurt. We've seen this happen time and again in the NHL, even from our own Flames. Prior to the cup run one of the most talked about moments for the Flames was the brawl against the Ducks. Was any of that justified? At the time there were plenty of people saying it was justified, and damn entertaining. No difference then as there is now. One team was not happy with the actions of the other so they sent a message. Your monster goon just hurt one of our guys so we're going to send our goon out to have at one of your guys. The stupid thing was sending your top line out there when you know what is coming and you have last change.
I don't recall the Ducks brawl's lead up, so no comment there.
The fact is that Tropp fought willingly and held his own. The injury wasn't due to the actions of any Leafs player, he hit his head on the ice. It takes some pretty creative thinking to try to argue that anything about that fight was unfair or deserved a response. I don't really care if Buffalo thinks it was justified, it was cowardly garbage.
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When you do a signature and don't attribute it to anyone, it's yours. - Vulcan
You would have to ask Buffalo, but I suspect the size differential, the type of players, and the fact the kid got hurt. We've seen this happen time and again in the NHL, even from our own Flames. Prior to the cup run one of the most talked about moments for the Flames was the brawl against the Ducks. Was any of that justified? At the time there were plenty of people saying it was justified, and damn entertaining. No difference then as there is now. One team was not happy with the actions of the other so they sent a message. Your monster goon just hurt one of our guys so we're going to send our goon out to have at one of your guys. The stupid thing was sending your top line out there when you know what is coming and you have last change.
The kid got hurt because he took his helmet off. Thats why the NHL is making it mandatory to have helmets on.
Mark Masters@markhmasters12m
Carlyle: 'Obviously, I made a mistake [sending Kessel out] but I never believed in my wildest dreams the attack would be directed at [him]'
Mark Masters@markhmasters11m
Carlyle on Clarkson: 'It was poor judgement ... there's no way to defend it'
Mark Masters@markhmasters10m
Carlyle on craziness last night: 'This rarely happens any more ... when was the last time something like this happened?'
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The kid got hurt because he took his helmet off. Thats why the NHL is making it mandatory to have helmets on.
Unfortunate injury but Devane ripped Tropp's helmet off. Similar to the way Kessel ripped the helmet off of Brian Flynn. Coincidence?
The funny thing about all of this is how it all unfolded.
Tropp scores then has to fight Devane and gets hurt. Buffalo responds by sending out Scott. Mayhem ensues. All of this happens in about five seconds of playing time.
So there's one thing in this nobody is talking about...
This is a PRESEASON game. Nothing on the line, and no honour to be gained by pummeling a star player. 2 guys had a fight, one guy had the worse outcome. Nothing to see here...but oh wait, let's send out a guy who is trying to make the team and knows he needs to fight someone to do it. Stupid Buffalo coach. Carlyle doesn't want to escalate this because, again, it's a preseason game, so he sends out his stars with the intention of defusing the situation. Well he didn't have to send out his top player to send that message, just a less physical skilled line. Stupid Leafs coach. Still, John Scott goes and grabs the smallest guy who is their star player in an effort to get redemption for...something, I'm still not sure what. Stupid John Scott. Then Kessel freaks out and gives him an initial slash that isn't the end of the world, but then flat out attacks him from behind with his stick. Stupid Kessel. Then Clarkson jumps over the boards to defend Kessel, which seems honourable at first, but wasn't really necessary once Scott was contained. Stupid Clarkson.
Basically, the whole thing was a display of stupidity at its finest. All for a preseason game. Well done everyone.
Hmm I think you misinterpret why fights happen. It's often a good tool to spark your team or the crowd, but sometimes it's all about bad blood. These guys hate each other and want to cause pain to one another. Not only that but they want to protect their star players and stand up for their teammates.
Pre-season or not those punches to the face feel the same. It's also a great way to build rivalries moving into the regular and post season.
I am not buying what Kadri is selling. The only reason he jumps the boards is so he can get to the end of the bench quicker to get off the ice and to the locker room.
Unfortunate injury but Devane ripped Tropp's helmet off. Similar to the way Kessel ripped the helmet off of Brian Flynn. Coincidence?
The funny thing about all of this is how it all unfolded.
Tropp scores then has to fight Devane and gets hurt. Buffalo responds by sending out Scott. Mayhem ensues. All of this happens in about five seconds of playing time.
No sorry, Tropp goes with Devane willingly. Devane obviously comes out there looking for it, but Tropp isn't looking to avoid that fight at all. As was pointed out earlier, he isn't averse to fighting.
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Where do you draw the line? Who gets to draw that line?
1. Players who should be playing in the NHL are those who are skilled enough to play in the NHL. 2. The League, the players, and the coaches should be the ones making this determination.
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Originally Posted by New Era
If you're going to eliminate the goon you need to eliminate the #### disturber because one is used to keep the other in check.
Why not just crack down hard on unwanted intentional acts to injure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era
That is part of the game of chess that goes on prior to the face off and during the play.
I call BS. The proof behind such a statement would require extensive study, and cannot be drawn anecdotally from casual observation. I know that this is the well-worn belief, but I suspect it is little more than a myth in reality. In short, I am highly sceptical that the presence of a goon on the ice has little impact at all on the behaviour and conduct of opposing team members. Remove them from the game, and I expect that the impact on the "game of chess" would be completely negligible.
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Originally Posted by New Era
I would like to know what your take on Devane, a 6'5 230 pound goon, with no hockey ability what so ever, beating the crap out of 6'0 185 pound Tropp, who was a 2nd year pro out of college, where they don't fight! See a similarity there?
I have been pretty clear in each of my posts: If he can't play hockey at an NHL level, then he has no business on the ice in a NHL game.
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Originally Posted by New Era
You may want to take a look at rosters around the league to see that the enforcer isn't dying. The Leafs sat two of the biggest goons and still had one in the lineup to handle matters like these. I'd love to see these guys go the way of the dodo, but the reality is that they are here to stay as long as the antagonist role exists.
No, they are here to stay so long as the League insists on promoting and sustaining the culture that provides for their presence. As soon as there is a will to get rid of enforcers, they will be gone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era
Does this have to be written in fragmented ancient Greek for you to make an inference of what is going to happen? Come on, you've been watching hockey for years and you know how the game is played, especially in pre-season. There was no way Carlyle was putting his guys out there to score. He knew Scott was going to drop his mitts the second the puck left the linesman's hand. The only thing he had to do was to control the situation and throw someone out there to fight the guy and diffuse the situation.
Fair enough (although, ancient Greek is not my strongest suit).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic
1. Players who should be playing in the NHL are those who are skilled enough to play in the NHL. 2. The League, the players, and the coaches should be the ones making this determination.
Why not just crack down hard on unwanted intentional acts to injure?
I call BS. The proof behind such a statement would require extensive study, and cannot be drawn anecdotally from casual observation. I know that this is the well-worn belief, but I suspect it is little more than a myth in reality. In short, I am highly sceptical that the presence of a goon on the ice has little impact at all on the behaviour and conduct of opposing team members. Remove them from the game, and I expect that the impact on the "game of chess" would be completely negligible.
I have been pretty clear in each of my posts: If he can't play hockey at an NHL level, then he has no business on the ice in a NHL game.
No, they are here to stay so long as the League insists on promoting and sustaining the culture that provides for their presence. As soon as there is a will to get rid of enforcers, they will be gone.
Fair enough (although, ancient Greek is not my strongest suit).
I will ask you this about the bolded since others have been asked who had the same idea but cant answer...
How?
How do you get rid of any "type" of player? You have to allow teams to sign and draft whomever they like. They are the ones on the hook for the paychecks, not the league or anyone else.
So unless you ban fighting from the game which will never happen at this point, then there must be some way to do it. I cannot fathom what that is.
Jay Feaster was just on Hockey Central and was aksed point blank if there is still a roll for these players in the game and he emphatically stated "yes there is".
As for who was penalized, Tropp got 5 for slashing, 2 10's and a double game disqualification. So there's that.
