Being impregnated during a rape is just like getting a flat tire

[calgarybornnraised]

I find it really stupid that a bunch of MEN are fighting over a WOMEN'S right to do with her body what she will.None of you know what its like to be pregnant,scared and alone.And its none of your damn business.

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by calgarybornnraised

I find it really stupid that a bunch of MEN are fighting over a WOMEN'S right to do with her body what she will.None of you know what its like to be pregnant,scared and alone.And its none of your damn business.

It's a sort of human right, though. No we won't know what it's like to be pregnant or scared. We also won't know what it's like to have ovarian or cervical cancer, but I think we can share opinions on how to treat that. I mean, pregnancy isn't a disease or illness, but it's an issue that effects everybody of both genders.

Pro-choice is by no means forcing women to get abortions, it's giving them the choice to do what they want with their body.

[calgarybornnraised]

Originally Posted by Yasa

It's a sort of human right, though. No we won't know what it's like to be pregnant or scared. We also won't know what it's like to have ovarian or cervical cancer, but I think we can share opinions on how to treat that. I mean, pregnancy isn't a disease or illness, but it's an issue that effects everybody of both genders.

Pro-choice is by no means forcing women to get abortions, it's giving them the choice to do what they want with their body.

What makes it a human right?Its none of your business what a women does in her doctors office .As much as a man in his.

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by calgarybornnraised

What makes it a human right?Its none of your business what a women does in her doctors office .As much as a man in his.

Because the choice effects the life (potential life?) of a human. It takes 2 people for conception. Assuming you really wanted a child, I think you'd be pretty upset if your girlfriend/spouse had an abortion without consulting you, simply because it's "her body."

There are essentially 2 bodies in this equation, and this is where the debate stems from. Again, you're missing the point of my last post; pro-choice isn't forcing women to have abortions.

[calgarybornnraised]

The choice is mine.Im pregnant,This is my life choice.

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by calgarybornnraised

The choice is mine.Im pregnant,This is my life choice.

That's just super! You're expressing your right of pro-choice.

[calgarybornnraised]

are you mad?

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by calgarybornnraised

are you mad?

Nope! I've got nothing to be mad about. Except maybe how expensive lego is.

[calgarybornnraised]

Originally Posted by Yasa

Nope! I've got nothing to be mad about. Except maybe how expensive lego is.

+1. Pirates lego...very popular

[calgarybornnraised]

In these bodies we will live,in these bodies we will die.

[Ark2]

wtf?

[Wormius]

Its an interesting debate, but isn't the point regardless of pro-choice/pro-life stance whether abortion should be financially subsidized by tax payers?

If it isn't medically necessary or the result of rape, then probably not. And regardless of the reason for the abortion, it will likely depend more on the ideaology of the doctor than whatever rights one believes they have to get a medical procedure done. So even if its your right to abort for any reason, doesn't mean it will happen, short of some back alley clinic, where you wouldn't have it financed with tax dollars anyway, so its a moot point.

[Nuje]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Its an interesting debate, but isn't the point regardless of pro-choice/pro-life stance whether abortion should be financially subsidized by tax payers?

If it isn't medically necessary or the result of rape, then probably not. And regardless of the reason for the abortion, it will likely depend more on the ideaology of the doctor than whatever rights one believes they have to get a medical procedure done. So even if its your right to abort for any reason, doesn't mean it will happen, short of some back alley clinic, where you wouldn't have it financed with tax dollars anyway, so its a moot point.

The issue as far as finances and insurance is to give people a choice to add abortions to their insurnace coverage, rather than make it all-encompasing.

While most men of the pro-choice mindset say they would add that extra insurance coverage, I believe that many would try to save the money (but then lie about it, like people in Southern States who vote Democrat lie about it due to social pressure). As a man, you literally will never benefit financially from this extra premium.

Then many women will opt out of it for various reasons. Steady relationship, marriage, careful protection, pro-life stance (religious or not). Then, inevitably, a woman who opts out will require one, and not be able to afford it/not want to pay even though she can. Lawyers will twist the meaning of the words in the bill, and open up yet another can of worms.

If this is a financial issue (which has been brought up here), making everybody cover this keeps the additional premium per person quite low. Making people opt in will increase said premium per person paying, and add the above outlined problems (most men not paying, women not paying yet attempting to cash out)

If this is a moral issue, I understand. I do. No two people's morals on earth line up. However, morally my views don't line up with Canada's laws, but I realise that I have to abide by them. If that seriously bothered me on a moral level, I would move.

[Gozer]

The issue being debated here is largely academic.

The Republican's goal is to attack a non-demographic (right-wing pro-choice global health care voters) to excite/ignite their ignorant bible thumping base.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Gozer

The radical right in the United States is scary right now.

Now?

Wow, I literally said this the last time I was on. The radical right in the US has been scary for a while. People who believe in the Rapture and that the world is 4600 (or whatever) years old vie for the highest public office.

The US is about 2 steps from becoming a white Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. Fundamentalism is no good anywhere and should not be confused into the public office or courts.

And this is why some of us argue it so much when the rest of you roll your eyes.

[Daradon]

And before I get jumped, I will reiterate, I am pro-life for my life, but pro-choice for the world. This will seem like sitting on the fence, but I will explain it as this.

I do believe, the fetus (at a certain age, not necessarily at conception) is a life, therefore should have some rights.

In that situation, if I was preg (which could not happen) or if I got a girl preg (which is obviously possible) I would do what I could to see it come to term and love it and support it.

I would offer to take the child, even if the mother wanted nothing to do with it. If she still wanted to abort, I would step away, she has more say than I do. But she's obviously not a person I would want to be around anymore.

I do believe that one life inside another has to split rights and so, it not being my body, I don't have a lot to say. Like with the law, if one's life infringes on another's life, then there is a conflict.

Morally, I think a lot of people of people use abortion for the wrong reasons, i.e. as a form of birth control, and that is wrong.

However, I do believe there are time when it is right. Like rape, incest, health problems, etc. You can't just trade one life for another because it's 'innocent'.

As well, I do think it is a socially needed thing. There are a ton of unwanted babies, do we really need to add more? Sometimes parents are just screw ups, and nothing is going to change that. You wanna screw up that kids life as well?

In a perfect world, abortion is a hateful thing. But this is hardly a perfect world. I will do what I can, to fix it. By not having unprepared babies, and if I do, by taking care of them.

But I can't fix all the side issues of rape, neglect, abuse, and unwanted babies. And changing the rule, to make abortion illegal, isn't going to make it better, it's going to make it worse.

To make the world better, we only have to live our values, and try to teach them. But we don't ever force them. To each their own, harm none. But we can't force others to harm none obviously. It doesn't work logistically, and it doesn't work morally.

So I live pro-life, but I vote pro-choice.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by calgarybornnraised

I find it really stupid that a bunch of MEN are fighting over a WOMEN'S right to do with her body what she will.None of you know what its like to be pregnant,scared and alone.And its none of your damn business.

It's a human issue. I agree, it's MORE of a womens issue but it's a human issue.

By your logic, the fetus could speak up and say: WOW! I can't believe you guys are arguing about a fetal issue!

It's an issue that affects morality and rights, the definition of life, not only with humans, but the world. It affects relationship between the parents and parental rights. It effects everything. Yes it's a woman's body, and she has the most say, but to say it doesn't affect everyone is amazing shortsighted.

And as you'll see above, I'm very middle of the ground on the issue. But I also think it's something that requires more responsibility from BOTH parties.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Thor

Really? Have you not read any of the articles posted in this thread?

Yes really. Isn't the process of an abortion more invasive than a sonogram? This cartoon seems to be making the argument that the sonogram is the worst part of the operation, and thusly blames some politician for the @#%!blocking that ensued. Pretty stupid if you ask me. I realize that you aren't really of the mindset that anything that supports your position should be looked at critically, but come on.

[SeeBass]

No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says: He is always convinced that it says what he means. --George Bernard Shaw