Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

New Brunswick is mostly the Irving's. Refine foreign petroleum. Sell it to the US. Irving's rake in the cash, but New Brunswick doesn't.



Dairy is their next biggest I think. Powdered milk, specifically.

Powdered Milk


You just triggered my PTSD

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Dude, take a god damn break and step away for a few days.

your #### is insufferable and covers all aspects of the off topic threads.

To everyone else, just put this idiot on ignore so i can quit seeing his drivel.

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Did it yesterday, it's been much better. I don't really believe in using the ignore feature. Well, I didn't until these two returned. Nothing of value has been lost. Addition by subtraction. Won't be missed. Ignorance is bliss.

Do either of you two realize how difficult it is at times to convince people that the major proponents of the UCP think the way these guys think?

Some of us consider them posting what they do while no “moderate” UCP supporters are to be found calling out their views as extreme or out to lunch to be a valuable educational exercise for voters in this province.

Basically in my opinion you should want what they’re saying and more importantly the easy debunking of it to be seen by as many people as possible.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Did it yesterday, it's been much better. I don't really believe in using the ignore feature. Well, I didn't until these two returned. Nothing of value has been lost. Addition by subtraction. Won't be missed. Ignorance is bliss.

phew no more death threats thrown my way by you

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Cappy

To everyone else, just put this idiot on ignore so i can quit seeing his drivel.

Done.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Ya your pension fund, your TFSA or RRSP or RESP...Pickles if you aren't participating in generating wealth for you and your family, I would suggest you get on the capitalist train! Beep Beep!

DM if you want investment advice.

When Mel suggests investment advice, nobody ####ing listens

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Dude, take a god damn break and step away for a few days.

your #### is insufferable and covers all aspects of the off topic threads.

To everyone else, just put this idiot on ignore so i can quit seeing his drivel.

Yesterday was a good day

[Bunk]

Good to see Kenney's statements.

Kenney is like Bush. He wasn't great, but both seem like absolute statesmen compared to the chaos and self interest of Smith and Trump. I hate that both make me miss the relative stability of those two in power.

Ugly times ahead.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Do either of you two realize how difficult it is at times to convince people that the major proponents of the UCP think the way these guys think?

Some of us consider them posting what they do while no “moderate” UCP supporters are to be found calling out their views as extreme or out to lunch to be a valuable educational exercise for voters in this province.

Basically in my opinion you should want what they’re saying and more importantly the easy debunking of it to be seen by as many people as possible.

Respectfully, why? They aren't interested in facts, or rebuttals, or debunking, or any sense of educating themselves on the subjects to which they speak. It's all totally fruitless.

The average voter convinced that the UCP or MAGA solves all of their problems do not possess the capacity for nuanced discussion on the merits and shortfalls of their beliefs.

That's not meant as a blanket statement as you will have reasoned persons across the political spectrum, but what that Mel or Bo have posted in the last weeks to months convinces you their worth anything more than ignoring?

Training yourself on how to address an idiot doesn't really develop any productive skills other than learning how to avoid other idiots.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

New Brunswick is mostly the Irving's. Refine foreign petroleum. Sell it to the US. Irving's rake in the cash, but New Brunswick doesn't.

Dairy is their next biggest I think. Powdered milk, specifically.

Lobster are #2. The ones with claws, specifically.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Respectfully, why? They aren't interested in facts, or rebuttals, or debunking, or any sense of educating themselves on the subjects to which they speak. It's all totally fruitless.

It’s not about changing their minds, it’s about changing the minds of people who are influenced by their manipulation.

The average voter convinced that the UCP or MAGA solves all of their problems do not possess the capacity for nuanced discussion on the merits and shortfalls of their beliefs.

There’s for sure a lot of people whose minds will never change, but don’t underestimate the number of people whose can. I’ve seen it happen many times, whether it’s in politics or other matters where people don’t always agree. It’s a grind getting there but persistence is the key.

That's not meant as a blanket statement as you will have reasoned persons across the political spectrum, but what that Mel or Bo have posted in the last weeks to months convinces you their worth anything more than ignoring?

If you stop trying to debunk the manipulation altogether then support for their causes grows because the door swings both ways. The more people you can expose the failures of their self serving arguments to the better. It’s not about what they say it’s about what we say in response.

Training yourself on how to address an idiot doesn't really develop any productive skills other than learning how to avoid other idiots.

You’re a long time poster. I’m sure you can recall at least once or twice or maybe even 50 times where people who hate the fact that I’m pro-union have tried to either get me banned, attacked me personally or waived what I call the “I’m blocking you white flag” instead of focusing on actually trying to disprove what I’m saying.

Do you think them doing so made them right in whatever debates we were having at the time? Whether you agree or disagree with my views on Unions do you think their cowardice(sorry that’s just how I see it) has helped or hurt my ability to have people hear what I have to say? Did it make it look like I was wrong or make them look like they couldn’t come up with a good counter to what I was saying?

I would argue that it has provided a much easier path to have people hear a different perspective. Based on the number of people whose posting history suggests that they have moderated their views over time on the subject I’m guessing hiding from the debate hasn’t helped the cause of my detractors the way they had hoped that it would.

Do you want to give the posters in question here that same opportunity? I know I don’t.

Let go of the outcome of hoping you’ll convince the poster to admit they’re wrong. Instead focus on using the opportunity to prove to yourself and others that they’re wrong. Share your logic with those who may not have been able to figure it out themselves.

Avoiding people(or idiots as you put it) because of their political beliefs or bull#### arguments doesn’t help you avoid the ramifications of assuming everyone is smart enough to debunk their bull#### arguments on their own.

[Yamer]

I just think that, in the majority of cases where people are demonstrating this level of rhetoric, it's a lost cause not worth pursuing.

And since nobody is coming to CP for their political and ideological cues, all it ends up doing is polluting the board and giving unsavory and unserious characters wank bank material.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Yamer

I just think that, in the majority of cases where people are demonstrating this level of rhetoric, it's a lost cause not worth pursuing.

And since nobody is coming to CP for their political and ideological cues, all it ends up doing is polluting the board and giving unsavory and unserious characters wank bank material.

Fair enough. For me personally though I just think in the big picture it’s rarely a bad thing to debunk manipulative arguments when the opportunity presents itself. Meanwhile people blocking them, boasting about it and then continuing to bring them up in discussions(Yoho is a good example of this) comes off as less productive. Way less fun of a hobby too.

[troutman]

The real reason for shift in coal policy - cowardice and incompetence.

Alberta coal mining moratorium lifted to protect taxpayers from lawsuits, premier says
https://calgaryherald.com/business/e...danielle-smith

NDP Leader Naheed Nenshi said the United Conservative Party government put the province in the position of choosing between exposing itself to environmental or legal risks.

“That ridiculous mistake of lifting (the existing coal policy) and then reversing it is what led to these lawsuits,” Nenshi said. “So now the premier has reversed it again because of the lawsuits caused by the UCP’s own incompetence.

“So in exchange for keeping their eggs off their face, they’re sacrificing our eastern slopes and our water,” Corb Lund said in an interview Tuesday.

Whatever it costs in court is a tiny, tiny fraction of what it’s going to cost the taxpayers years from now to clean this mess up.”

[Torture]

Originally Posted by troutman

The real reason for shift in coal policy - cowardice and incompetence.

Alberta coal mining moratorium lifted to protect taxpayers from lawsuits, premier says
https://calgaryherald.com/business/e...danielle-smith

Un-####ing-believable that we would quietly go back to the free for all of coal mining anywhere on the Eastern Slopes policy that Albertans spoke out so strongly about.

[troutman]

Meanwhile, Smith said accessing Alberta’s stock of metallurgical coal would be a good thing.

“You just cannot make wind turbines and solar panels without metallurgical coal,” she said.

Someone should tell Danielle that new technology makes coal non-essential in making steel. Australia is in a panic about it - the value of coal is about to go down the drain.

https://ieefa.org/resources/dont-bel...y%20transition.

https://ieefa.org/resources/2025-aus...ermanently-and

“This is how our community feels and we will continue pushing forward,” said Mayor Blair Painter.

Not really Mayor Painter - you did not survey the 2000 part-time property owners in CNP who would be largely against the coal mine. Seems you put your fingers on the scale to get an outcome you wanted. Further, what about the opinions of 200,000 people in the Oldman watershed, and 5 million Albertans?

[Fuzz]

It'd be nice if these lawsuits could only be brought against the political parties that set themselves up for it, and not taxpayers. I hate that they can basically #### us over as much as they want, and walk away with pensions at the end of it, with no real consequences for their malice and incompetence.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by troutman

Someone should tell Danielle that new technology makes coal non-essential in making steel. Australia is in a panic about it - the value of coal is about to go down the drain.

https://ieefa.org/resources/dont-bel...y%20transition.



Not really Mayor Painter - you did not survey the 2000 part-time property owners in CNP who would be largely against the coal mine. Seems you put your fingers in the scale to get an outcome you wanted. Further, what about the opinions of 200,000 people in the Oldman watershed, and 5 million Albertans?

Oh man, that is really going to suck for BC and their ~$4B coal industry which is around 95% metallurgical coal.

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by troutman

Someone should tell Danielle that new technology makes coal non-essential in making steel. Australia is in a panic about it - the value of coal is about to go down the drain.

https://ieefa.org/resources/dont-bel...y%20transition.

https://ieefa.org/resources/2025-aus...ermanently-and



Not really Mayor Painter - you did not survey the 2000 part-time property owners in CNP who would be largely against the coal mine. Seems you put your fingers on the scale to get an outcome you wanted. Further, what about the opinions of 200,000 people in the Oldman watershed, and 5 million Albertans?

Mayor Painter spends half his time posting conspiracy theories on Facebook, so none of this is surprising.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by troutman

Someone should tell Danielle that new technology makes coal non-essential in making steel. Australia is in a panic about it - the value of coal is about to go down the drain.

https://ieefa.org/resources/dont-bel...y%20transition.

https://ieefa.org/resources/2025-aus...ermanently-and



Not really Mayor Painter - you did not survey the 2000 part-time property owners in CNP who would be largely against the coal mine. Seems you put your fingers on the scale to get an outcome you wanted. Further, what about the opinions of 200,000 people in the Oldman watershed, and 5 million Albertans?

The transition is starting there, but it's decades from reality. I know of the 3 major steel makers in Canada 2 are looking at partial transitions, without a full plan to transition complete, because it would realistically use too much scrap or pre-processing, and it's not even on the last ones radar.

And the other smaller mills in Canada have been scrap and electricity for years now, and wont have much effect on the existing coal market as they continue.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Powdered Milk

You just triggered my PTSD

Whaddya mean?! A nice glass of powdered milk goes great with room temperature powdered eggs and textured vegetable protein. If you’re lucky, dessert will be a stale tortilla with peanut butter!