[POLL] Calgary Flames coaching change mega-thread—with poll

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

How often does the presidents trophy team win the cup?

I don’t give a #### about that. I want a cup.

President's trophy contending teams win the Cup most years. Teams with 105 points or more.

Lower seeded teams don't win very often.

What Sutter did in LA was abnormal.

[Gaskal]

I'd rather take a middling 2-3 in conference team getting hot at the right time. Look at Nashville's run last year.

[jlh2640]

Like him as a person and aspects of his coaching, however his special teams and line usage were the reason he is gone. It was time

[Scroopy Noopers]

Edit never mind. I just realized you didn’t answer the question I asked. I stand by it

[jlh2640]

My choice would be in this order

Tippett
Trotz
Vignealt
Peters
Sutter

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

How often does the presidents trophy team win the cup?

25% of the time historically.
20% of the time in the previous decade.

Darryl has gotten teams to overachieve in the playoffs, but even if you give him equal playoff odds to a PT winner, you have to factor in that he isn't a lock to take a team to the playoffs, while a President's Trophy team is a lock to be in the playoffs.

Doesn't mean the President's Trophy is the end-all be-all of course - I mean the Capitals have three of them and haven't made the ECF yet, but you asked the question. I'd like to see the Flames win a President's Trophy. As well as a cup.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Maybe. Who knows though. What if style of play had some impact the goalies' performance?

Khudobin went from a 0.926 before Peters to a 0.900 under Peters and has hovered around .910since since leaving Carolina
Eddie Lack went from a 0.921 in Van to a .901 under Peters
Scott Darling went from a 0.924 in Chi to a .888 under peters

I'm not blaming Peters for the Goaltending, but it's a possibility there's at least a partial causal relationship.

Closer to home, Kipper went from .933 and .923 under Sutter to .917 under Playfair then to .906 and .903 under Keenan.

Team play has a lot to do with goalie stats and perception.

As for coaches, I would like to see a team that wins, and that a respected coach can motivate, so Sutter was tempting to choose. Vigneault seems to be good at slotting players. But I like fast uptempo hockey and if Ruff can bring the positive elements of Hartley’s style with transition and speed then I can see finding that pretty watchable.

Krueger seemed interesting as well.

[TheOnlyBilko]

Sutter or

Alain Vigneault

Flip a coin

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Scrambler

My daughter's reaction to the news:

OMG...What a cutie pie

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Who is Peters? Anyone got more info on him and what type of coach he is? Do Canes fans like him?

No, the Canes fans do not like him at all..

[jlh2640]

Darryl is not the coach for this team, we need to move on.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

25% of the time historically.
20% of the time in the previous decade.

Darryl has gotten teams to overachieve in the playoffs, but even if you give him equal playoff odds to a PT winner, you have to factor in that he isn't a lock to take a team to the playoffs, while a President's Trophy team is a lock to be in the playoffs.

Doesn't mean the President's Trophy is the end-all be-all of course - I mean the Capitals have three of them and haven't made the ECF yet, but you asked the question. I'd like to see the Flames win a President's Trophy. As well as a cup.

4 times in 18 years. 2 being the Wings dynasty.

How many times has sutter missed the playoffs in that time?

[Roof-Daddy]

2006 - Canes - 112
2007 - Ducks - 110
2008 - Wings - 115
2009 - Pens - 99
2010 - Hawks - 112
2011 - Bruins - 103
2012 - Kings - 95
2013 - Hawks - 77 (131 pro rated)
2014 - Kings - 100
2015 - Hawks - 102
2016 - Pens - 104
2017 - Pens - 111

12 Cup winners since the first lock out.

6/12 had 110 points or more
10/12 had 100 points or more

I'd rather take my chances with President's trophy contending team than a low seeder getting hot at the right time.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Who is Peters? Anyone got more info on him and what type of coach he is? Do Canes fans like him?

Just picture this board if it was rumoured that gulutzan was on the first flight to Raleigh. It would seem unthinkable that anyone would consider him for a job. Apparently, we would!

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

That’s all you think that contributed to his 2 cups, and his finals appearance with the flames??? Actually???

I would also argue that this team is loaded with WAY more talent than the 04 group.

I’m a goalie, and Kipper was the greatest... but come on.

PS: Smith is no slouch.

Smith I believe would not be throwing teammates under the bus with Sutter.

Also I think Sutter would put an end to his poor puckhandling decisions. (Like throwing it up to the winger on the far blue line leading to an instant turnover)

Finally Sutter’s D would make him a Vezina candidate.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

2006 - Canes - 112
2007 - Ducks - 110
2008 - Wings - 115
2009 - Pens - 99
2010 - Hawks - 112
2011 - Bruins - 103
2012 - Kings - 95
2013 - Hawks - 77 (131 pro rated)
2014 - Kings - 100
2015 - Hawks - 102
2016 - Pens - 104
2017 - Pens - 111

12 Cup winners since the first lock out.

6/12 had 110 points or more
10/12 had 100 points or more

I'd rather take my chances with President's trophy contending team than a low seeder getting hot at the right time.

Now I’m really confused... you referenced 2 Sutter teams

Please don’t follow up with 95 points being unacceptable. It’s 2 wins and an OT loss off your magical 100 point number.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by timbit

Fake news.
6 years in SJ
6 years in LA

Alright, I was exaggerating a bit, but if those two teams had to do it again, it would have been earlier - 4 years each. Sutter hockey is only successful if his players are big and are willing to go to the dirty areas. Only two players consistently do that: Tkachuk snd Ferland. Good luck getting all the other soft players to do that on a consistent basis without getting them hurt. What the Flames need is a coach that can utilize the speed and creativity to play smart hockey rather than the bruiser type that Sutter employs.

Take a look at current teams that are smaller than the Kings and the Ducks:
Lightnings
Predators
Bruins
Penguins
Sharks
Golden Knights
Blue Jackets

These are all teams that are smaller, yet faster. They are also currently more successful in the playoffs than the bigger teams. The Jets are the only exception where that team is huge with speed. It wasn't until the Jets started to play smarter hockey that they really became a real contender. Previous years, they were a big team playing bruiser style hockey and taking stupid penalties. Both the Jets and especially the Vegas Knight right now are so much more enjoyable to watch - just fast with lots of action. Lightnings, the second smallest team in the league but it's one of the best right now - speed and skills. Flames need a coach that can utilize the speed and skills they have now and add to in the going holes that's so apparent this past season. They can't just sit on these one goal games or keep playing for ties to try and win in OT. Sutter is not the man for this team and the notion to build this team around Bennett having Sutter as the coach is just so ridiculously laughable.

[fire_starter]

Since Tippett signing most likely won't happen i'm going with AV.

I also wouldn't mind Jack Capuano

[jlh2640]

Originally Posted by fire_starter

Since Tippett signing most likely won't happen i'm going with AV.

I also wouldn't mind Jack Capuano

Why wont it

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

4 times in 18 years. 2 being the Wings dynasty.

How many times has sutter missed the playoffs in that time?

Sutter is a great coach but the game isn't the same. Not even to what it was last time he won the Cup which feels like only yesterday. There are many reasons for this but I would point to the league simply evolving in its use of analytics - Sutter was a forward thinker in that department but people have caught up and tweaked the ideas.

This year of the sixteen teams that made the playoffs, only two were in the bottom half of the league in goal scoring and they were respectively 17th and 18th. None of the bottom twelve teams in goal scoring made the playoffs.

In 2013-14, of the sixteen teams that made the playoffs, only eleven were in the bottom half of the league in goal scoring, and three were bottom ten in goal scoring. The Kings had the worst goals per game of any playoff team, sitting 25th in the NHL. They won the cup.

It's a subtle shift, and there are factors like variance involved - but it shouldn't be hand-waved. Offense matters more now than it did five years ago, because any edge you had five years ago, the offensive teams now also utilize.