Pentagon releases UFO videos

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Same thing exists in every country, including Canada.

I'm not convinced.

[Ozy_Flame]

Not ridiculous at all. The 9/11 commission report found that these intelligence agencies were heavily stove piped, and that better information sharing might have improved the situation, and that a lot of long-standing issues around cooperation. Collaboration still remain to this day.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'm not convinced.

Shocked. Shocked I say.

[jammies]

Lanny, when will you understand that you can't get around not being able to disclose classified information by confining yourself to detailed allusions to its existence? It's still a violation - to illustrate, imagine if, in 1944, someone working on the atomic bomb talked to a reporter and said, "We're working on something to end the war, I can't call it a weapon, but there are guys who know more than me who've called it a weapon. We've got a facility out in a desert state, somewhere in the south-west, but I can't tell you exactly which one because that is a secret too, but it's not Arizona or Nevada. Oh, and I can't tell you who is working on it either, but have you noticed Oppenheimer hasn't been around much lately?"

All that would all still be privileged information that couldn't be shared, even if nothing secret was said directly. You sound like a child who thinks playing lawyer with his parents is a valid strategy to avoid punishment.

Further, these whistleblower protections you prattle on about would be relevant if Grosch was actually blowing whistles - but he's not. He's just talking about stuff he purportedly heard about that he thinks shouldn't be secret, he's not exposing criminals or revealing the price-fixing cabal behind shrinkflation. This is what makes it absurd, there's no wrong-doing to uncover EVEN IF there really are aliens being hidden by General Jack D Ripper and his posse of space cowboys. Maybe Grosch is a fraud, or delusional, or being hoaxed, but he's no whistleblower and the whole circus is a waste of time.

[Muta]

jammies, just curious - did you watch Grusch's interview with Ross Coulhart in May (where he came forward for the first time) and the Congressional hearings last week?

[ripTDR]

I'm just going to pop in and say this is all moot because I still believe nothing can travel faster than light which is a pretty big part of interstellar travel

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Not ridiculous at all. The 9/11 commission report found that these intelligence agencies were heavily stove piped, and that better information sharing might have improved the situation, and that a lot of long-standing issues around cooperation. Collaboration still remain to this day.

That's different. For 9/11 no one was asking anything, and the few saying things were ignored. In this case everyone is asking and no one can get the answers that people are claiming exist. Fundamentally different issues. If the US government can't even get the answers from their own departments that they are in charge of, I don't think it's a stretch to call that ####ing embarrassing. But maybe my standards are just too high.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by jammies

Lanny, when will you understand that you can't get around not being able to disclose classified information by confining yourself to detailed allusions to its existence? It's still a violation - to illustrate, imagine if, in 1944, someone working on the atomic bomb talked to a reporter and said, "We're working on something to end the war, I can't call it a weapon, but there are guys who know more than me who've called it a weapon. We've got a facility out in a desert state, somewhere in the south-west, but I can't tell you exactly which one because that is a secret too, but it's not Arizona or Nevada. Oh, and I can't tell you who is working on it either, but have you noticed Oppenheimer hasn't been around much lately?"

All that would all still be privileged information that couldn't be shared, even if nothing secret was said directly. You sound like a child who thinks playing lawyer with his parents is a valid strategy to avoid punishment.

Further, these whistleblower protections you prattle on about would be relevant if Grosch was actually blowing whistles - but he's not. He's just talking about stuff he purportedly heard about that he thinks shouldn't be secret, he's not exposing criminals or revealing the price-fixing cabal behind shrinkflation. This is what makes it absurd, there's no wrong-doing to uncover EVEN IF there really are aliens being hidden by General Jack D Ripper and his posse of space cowboys. Maybe Grosch is a fraud, or delusional, or being hoaxed, but he's no whistleblower and the whole circus is a waste of time.

Wait. You have the audacity to say that someone prattles on then post the crap above? You're embarrassing yourself. And I mean more than usual.
You really don't have a clue what you're talking about. It was obvious before when you tried to take your original run at whistleblowers but it is even more evident with this post. You ignore reality and how things really work and live in some sick twisted fever dream created from watching movies. Even when the actual laws are referenced for you, you ignore them and continue to flap your ignorant gums about a subject that is clearly beyond you and misinterpreting historical moments before such laws existed as proof. Embarrassing.

Grush is a whistleblower because he followed the law and registered as such with ODNI and has been accepted as much by congress. He's followed the law and has been taken seriously by both bodies. He's presenting information and can provide names and details in secure facility consistent with his security clearance exactly like a number of whistleblowers before him. I'll take ODNI and congress' word for it.

Originally Posted by Muta

jammies, just curious - did you watch Grusch's interview with Ross Coulhart in May (where he came forward for the first time) and the Congressional hearings last week?

Of course he didn't. His mind is made up on this topic. No need to challenge what he already "knows" is wrong. Even though he continues to be wrong on almost everything he tries to bring to the discussion, he will hold fast to his beliefs and not entertain other ideas.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Why are you struggling to follow this? This isn't rocket science. He's a member of AARO and was required to interview and report across a number of specialties to confirm deny claims. He's going to come across a lot of information and interview a lot of people who are in direct contact with the evidence.

If this is true why did the AARO say his claims were made up?

[soreshins]

Originally Posted by jammies

Further, these whistleblower protections you prattle on about would be relevant if Grosch was actually blowing whistles - but he's not. He's just talking about stuff he purportedly heard about that he thinks shouldn't be secret, he's not exposing criminals or revealing the price-fixing cabal behind shrinkflation. This is what makes it absurd, there's no wrong-doing to uncover EVEN IF there really are aliens being hidden by General Jack D Ripper and his posse of space cowboys. Maybe Grosch is a fraud, or delusional, or being hoaxed, but he's no whistleblower and the whole circus is a waste of time.

Sorry, this is plain wrong. The main premise of his allegations is that there are secret, illegally funded programs and associated information being kept from congress, they just happen to be associated with reverse engineering of NHI craft. He has been quite specific about this, has provided details to the inspector general of the intelligence community who formally deemed his allegations “credible and urgent”, and has stated that he is prepared to offer all the specific details of these illegal activities to members of congress in the appropriate venue.

[Jiggy_12]

https://thehill.com/opinion/technolo...al-is-looming/

" decades-long saga of unidentified flying objects (UFOs) is barreling headlong toward one of two stunning conclusions.

Either the U.S. government has mounted an extraordinary, decades-long coverup of UFO retrieval and reverse-engineering activities, or elements of the defense and intelligence establishment are engaging in a staggeringly brazen psychological disinformation campaign. Either possibility would have profound implications for democracy, the role of government and perhaps also humanity’s place in the cosmos.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Whichever way it turns out, I'm intrigued.

The crow eating if it's other-worldly would be delicious though. I wouldn't mind seeing the people who have been ridiculed for years or suffered in some way due to stigma get some vindication.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Whichever way it turns out, I'm intrigued.

The crow eating if it's other-worldly would be delicious though. I wouldn't mind seeing the people who have been ridiculed for years or suffered in some way due to stigma get some vindication.

Most of those people thought would still be conmen and people who saw very normal things, or psychological delusions. The government being involved in 70years of coverups and people being conmen practicing terrible science are not mutually exclusive.

I’d argue most people will not be vindicated despite the fact they will claim to be.

Like say the entirety of the ancient aliens show will still likely be completely fabricated regardless of what is found here.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Doesn't it seem entirely ridiculous that the US government has no idea WTF it's departments are up to? The fact elected representatives (by the people, for the people!) have no way of asking questions an getting answers other than this toothless media show should be incredibly embarrassing for all involved. Like, 75 years of this and all any president can even tell us is that they weren't permitted that information either.

This is pretty much how all the 3-letter agencies (CIA, NSA, DEA, ATF, etc.) operate and why new ones keep popping up. Everyone wants to play with their own ball and they don't want to be accountable or have someone else reading over their shoulder. These agencies aren't being created to serve the citizen, they're created so the people running these agencies can create their own little fiefdoms.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Matata

This is pretty much how all the 3-letter agencies (CIA, NSA, DEA, ATF, etc.) operate and why new ones keep popping up. Everyone wants to play with their own ball and they don't want to be accountable or have someone else reading over their shoulder. These agencies aren't being created to serve the citizen, they're created so the people running these agencies can create their own little fiefdoms.

So that's a yes, then? US government can't control it's own agencies, embarrassment lineup starts over here.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

So that's a yes, then? US government can't control it's own agencies, embarrassment lineup starts over here.

Why would anyone even begin to think they could control their agencies? The CIA has been in business for itself since the 60s.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Matata

Why would anyone even begin to think they could control their agencies? The CIA has been in business for itself since the 60s.

Sorry, my bad. It was a wild concept, I know.

[Ozy_Flame]

The ODNI was created to coalesce the entire gamut of intelligence agencies in the US to provide, among other things, goals for intelligence gathering and analysis and to set policy for intelligence sharing with foreign agencies

The U.S. Intelligence Community is composed of the following 18 organizations:

Two independent agencies—the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) and the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA);

Nine Department of Defense elements—the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), the National Security Agency (NSA), the National Geospatial- Intelligence Agency (NGA), the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO), and intelligence elements of the five DoD services; the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, and Space Force.

Seven elements of other departments and agencies—the Department of Energy’s Office of Intelligence and Counter-Intelligence; the Department of Homeland Security’s Office of Intelligence and Analysis and U.S. Coast Guard Intelligence; the Department of Justice’s Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Drug Enforcement Administration’s Office of National Security Intelligence; the Department of State’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research; and the Department of the Treasury’s Office of Intelligence and Analysis.


AARO - the office set up to investigate UAP - are within the office of the Secretary of Defense, which is part of the civilian staff of the U.S. Secretary of Defense, which is part of the executive department of the US Armed Forces. So technically AARO and the resources to investigate the phenomena fall within the purview of the ODNI.

Even DNI Avril Haines, and her predecessor John Ratcliffe (who has been on the news lately about the UAP topic too), has commented on UAP and the phenomena, and has made some pretty bold statements in 2021:

n dramatic shift, national intelligence director does not rule out ‘extraterrestrial’ origins for UFOs

Asked about a recent report in which the government admitted that it could not explain 143 out of 144 military encounters with mysterious flying objects – including several which appeared to demonstrate extraordinary technology – director of national intelligence Avril Haines said, “There’s always the question of ‘is there something else that we simply do not understand, that might come extraterrestrially?’”

Haines’s comment is the latest sign that a seismic shift in the government’s official stance on UFOs is underway.

Just a few weeks before Haines’s groundbreaking statement, NASA administrator Bill Nelson made waves by speculating publicly that UFOs might have otherworldly origins. Indeed, after meeting with the naval aviators who encountered objects that appeared to move in ways that defied physics and aerodynamics, Nelson is convinced that the pilots saw something truly extraordinary.

And then also from the same article:

John Ratcliffe, Haines’s predecessor as director of national intelligence, injected eyebrow-raising context to the military’s recent UFO encounters.

According to Ratcliffe, U.S. intelligence analysts have “high confidence” that foreign adversaries – such as China or Russia – are not behind the most extraordinary UFO sightings. In a stark summation of the government’s assessment of the phenomenon, Ratcliffe stated that some UFOs exhibit “technologies that we don’t have and, frankly, that we are not capable of defending against.”

After reading the classified version of the government’s recent UFO report, Sen. Mitt Romney (R-Utah) echoed Ratcliffe’s comments, ruling out highly advanced Chinese or Russian aircraft as likely explanations for the mysterious objects. In an interview about the military’s UFO encounters, Romney referred to “technology which is in a whole different sphere than anything we understand.”

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If this is true why did the AARO say his claims were made up?

Still looking for an answer to this, since it isn’t rocket science.

Originally Posted by GGG

Most of those people thought would still be conmen and people who saw very normal things, or psychological delusions. The government being involved in 70years of coverups and people being conmen practicing terrible science are not mutually exclusive.

I’d argue most people will not be vindicated despite the fact they will claim to be.

Like say the entirety of the ancient aliens show will still likely be completely fabricated regardless of what is found here.

Yeah, I think every skeptic out there just wants evidence. While some people obviously treat it as a game where someone needs to “eat crow,” it’s literally just asking for evidence of extraordinary claims, and providing that would suffice. But evidence is still limited in what it can prove. Showing that the government has non-human tech, or whatever, doesn’t prove that Joe Smith was abducted and probed in 1968, for example, so making proper scientific conclusions is still going to be important. For conspiracy theorists, one drop of evidence will legitimize every single thing, I’m sure.

[soreshins]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Still looking for an answer to this, since it isn’t rocket science.

Strictly speaking they did not deny his claims. AARO said that THEY (and only they) did not have any verifiable evidence of his claims. Grusch said that he reported all of his findings to Sean Kirkpatrick (the head of AARO) and that Kirkpatrick did not follow up with him. Grusch’s claims are that these programs are being kept hidden from everyone (including AARO) so that would be obviously why they have no verifiable evidence available to them. It’s not rocket science.