Electric vehicle war, is gas soon to be toast?

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by heavytbfagain

After contemplating for what felt like years (was actually months) I just dove in head first. Single vehicle household with solar panels now rocking full electric vehicle. Right before winter hits, so trial by fire for sure!

Oooh, what'd you get?

[heavytbfagain]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Oooh, what'd you get?

Went with a 2025 Kia EV9. It's been a couple of weeks and it is fantastic so far. I'm not much of a car guy. I'm usually excited to have power windows in a vehicle, so this thing is mind blowing with the tech and gizmos.

Taking a work trip up to Edmonton in December for a couple of days so will be good to test the winter highway range on it. So far for my commute from the SW to downtown daily which is probably about 30kms, I'm using about 7-8% of the battery.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by heavytbfagain

Went with a 2025 Kia EV9. It's been a couple of weeks and it is fantastic so far. I'm not much of a car guy. I'm usually excited to have power windows in a vehicle, so this thing is mind blowing with the tech and gizmos.



Taking a work trip up to Edmonton in December for a couple of days so will be good to test the winter highway range on it. So far for my commute from the SW to downtown daily which is probably about 30kms, I'm using about 7-8% of the battery.

EV9 is both cool looking and loaded with cool EV stuff. Super fast charging too

[calgarygeologist]

I took a new Jeep Grand Cherokee 4Xe as a rental vehicle and those things are really crappy. Jeep needs to spend a lot of time fine tuning the power delivery and the ICE/EV transition. Neither of those were smooth and it was a very clunky ride. I really wanted to like it but it was garbage. The battery seemed a bit too small with only about 30 miles of EV range. I also realized that paying for public charging is actually more expensive than just running it in hybrid mode. I paid just under $7 for a full charge to get 29 miles of range. When driving in hybrid mode with a depleted battery I was doing 25 to 26 mpg and it was only $4 per gallon for fuel.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by heavytbfagain

Went with a 2025 Kia EV9. It's been a couple of weeks and it is fantastic so far. I'm not much of a car guy. I'm usually excited to have power windows in a vehicle, so this thing is mind blowing with the tech and gizmos.

Taking a work trip up to Edmonton in December for a couple of days so will be good to test the winter highway range on it. So far for my commute from the SW to downtown daily which is probably about 30kms, I'm using about 7-8% of the battery.

Should probably charge in Red Deer, there's a lvl 3 charger at the Shell on Gasoline Alley that never works.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I took a new Jeep Grand Cherokee 4Xe as a rental vehicle and those things are really crappy. Jeep needs to spend a lot of time fine tuning the power delivery and the ICE/EV transition. Neither of those were smooth and it was a very clunky ride. I really wanted to like it but it was garbage. The battery seemed a bit too small with only about 30 miles of EV range. I also realized that paying for public charging is actually more expensive than just running it in hybrid mode. I paid just under $7 for a full charge to get 29 miles of range. When driving in hybrid mode with a depleted battery I was doing 25 to 26 mpg and it was only $4 per gallon for fuel.

Yeah, the benefit of a PHEV is really about charging at home for your short trips. While on the road you might as well stay on gas aside from wherever it's convenient, no point of going out of the way for it.
My Escape is super smooth in the ICE/EV transition. You notice the gas engine coming on but just because it's louder. Transition is pretty seamless. Not surprised to hear about the issues though, have read elsewhere that the Jeep is a pretty poor implementation of PHEV.


PHEV definitely makes me wonder about the full deal at times but I think it's a good compromise to have the convenience and flexibility of the existing gas infrastructure, especially for a 1 car family. We did our first mountain trip this weekend and somehow heading out to Lake Louise/back we juuust managed to keep our first tank of gas going. 1350km, haven't visited a gas station yet and still counting.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Torture

Yeah, the benefit of a PHEV is really about charging at home for your short trips. While on the road you might as well stay on gas aside from wherever it's convenient, no point of going out of the way for it.
My Escape is super smooth in the ICE/EV transition. You notice the gas engine coming on but just because it's louder. Transition is pretty seamless. Not surprised to hear about the issues though, have read elsewhere that the Jeep is a pretty poor implementation of PHEV.


PHEV definitely makes me wonder about the full deal at times but I think it's a good compromise to have the convenience and flexibility of the existing gas infrastructure, especially for a 1 car family. We did our first mountain trip this weekend and somehow heading out to Lake Louise/back we juuust managed to keep our first tank of gas going. 1350km, haven't visited a gas station yet and still counting.

With the Grand Cherokee 4xe not only could you definitely feel and notice the transition from EV to ICE but the transmission also shifted extremely firmly and with a noticable jolt. This was something that I am not use to anymore as our Ford Fusion Hybrid has an electronic CVT, same as your Escape, which is buttery smooth.

[Winsor_Pilates]

I finally got my first electricity bill since getting my EV and my 2 month bill was $7 higher than the previous 2 month bill.
Charging my car is seemingly costing me next to nothing.

However the previous bill would have been late summer usage and had my AC on in the house so maybe it just washed that cost.

[underGRADFlame]

So after getting rid of my '20 Hyundai Ioniq back in February, because I wanted to get back into a pickup (and really not enjoying what I bought for a ICE) I pulled the trigger yesterday on '24 F150 Lightning Flash, and I'm super excited to get back into a full EV.

Ford financing rates dropped huge which made me jump at it.

[Wormius]

Any ideas on where to buy a third-party level 1 chargers? I just looked at the cost of the OEM one for the Toyota and wouldn’t mind something shorter and significantly less expensive to keep in the car.

[ripTDR]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I finally got my first electricity bill since getting my EV and my 2 month bill was $7 higher than the previous 2 month bill.
Charging my car is seemingly costing me next to nothing.

However the previous bill would have been late summer usage and had my AC on in the house so maybe it just washed that cost.

This is where I take issue with the EV mandates. Unless you can charge at home with the going rates, it doesn't really make sense using third party charging because of the expense and inevitable surge pricing. People in older condos need to be able to charge at base rates and they need to do it with their own stall. Have 4 level 2 chargers with a 50 unit complex that has 6 EV's? you will get problems. Charging at home is incredibly cheap and convenient and if we want to go to electrification we have to keep it this way.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by ripTDR

This is where I take issue with the EV mandates. Unless you can charge at home with the going rates, it doesn't really make sense using third party charging because of the expense and inevitable surge pricing. People in older condos need to be able to charge at base rates and they need to do it with their own stall. Have 4 level 2 chargers with a 50 unit complex that has 6 EV's? you will get problems. Charging at home is incredibly cheap and convenient and if we want to go to electrification we have to keep it this way.

I think we need to be a little more forward looking here.

Firstly, there is no mandate. No one will be forced to buy anything. After 2035 (that's TEN years away)you cannot sell a combustion only vehicle. That's it. You can buy a used combustion or a new plug in hybrid vehicle. There's no EV mandate.

Secondly, Norway and others have mostly solved the cost problem as the cost issue is an economic one that will look vastly different in the future. Currently, charging stations are one off installations funded partially by grants and incentives, with mostly price insensitive customers. With only 1-2% of the fleet being electric, utilization is far too low to have cheaper stations, and the people who currently own EVs largely don't live in dense urban locations and they largely aren't price sensitive. If you're waiting for prices to come down before growing adoption then it'll never happen.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I finally got my first electricity bill since getting my EV and my 2 month bill was $7 higher than the previous 2 month bill.
Charging my car is seemingly costing me next to nothing.

However the previous bill would have been late summer usage and had my AC on in the house so maybe it just washed that cost.

I've done the math and it's about $3 for a full charge (20% to 100%). I average that about three times a month so that's right around where you measured electricity is so cheap.

It sucks that Fuhrer Smith is trying to recapture my savings in my registration

[Fuzz]

I dunno, I think it's only fair that gas taxes help support road construction and maintenance, and you use roads, so should also support it with dollars. Otherwise it falls more on non-road users to cover through general taxes. It's not the most ideal way, as gas taxes are paid based on use, but I don't think it's unreasonable.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I've done the math and it's about $3 for a full charge (20% to 100%). I average that about three times a month so that's right around where you measured electricity is so cheap.

It sucks that Fuhrer Smith is trying to recapture my savings in my registration

Was pleasantly surprised that PHEVs are the loop hole and don't get charged the EV tax because we still have a gasoline engine.

Also - Alberta is not putting the funds from the EV tax to road maintenance, they just go to general revenues.
....and $200 is only equal to fuel taxes if you're driving a pretty significant amount each year.

[kevman]

Crazy idea, scrap the gas tax as well and just pay annual usage tax at registration time based on mileage regardless of what energy you're using.

We have a carbon tax to take care of emissions, the mileage tax is to take care of infrastructure maintenance.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I dunno, I think it's only fair that gas taxes help support road construction and maintenance, and you use roads, so should also support it with dollars. Otherwise it falls more on non-road users to cover through general taxes. It's not the most ideal way, as gas taxes are paid based on use, but I don't think it's unreasonable.

It's very unreasonable because that is not their justification (nor have they indicated this fee would be distributed towards municipalities or federal roads - the only provincial roads typically driven by EVs are the Anthony Henday, Deerfoot Trail, and Stoney Trail. Highway 1 and Highway 16 would not plausibly benefit nor would any city roads).

If the province does want to tax me for driving to Lethbridge or Edmonton, they have an easy opportunity to put in a fair tax on DC Fast Charging. But Smith isn't interested in fair or sensible; her politics are just the reactionary fascist ideas of the wild rose.

The argument by her administration is that EVs "weigh more" than gas vehicles and cause more wear due to that.

My Kona EV weighs around 1700kg.
a typical internal combustion SUV weighs around 2200kg and a pickup truck around 2500kg. Yet I am going to be paying about $290 in March while that pickup pays $90. All so I can drive one km to the train station day and that pickup does trips to Hi Level and Pincher Creek.

As noted above, a usage tax makes sense, especially if you factor in weight. It's not difficult to track mileage from one registration to the next. But that is just not what Smith's goal is. It is fearmongering and reactionism.

[Shazam]

Meh. It's hardly anything.

Are you complaining that you're being taxed wrong?

[Fuzz]

I'm not saying the tax has been done right. I don't think a supercharger fee really captures realistic use given home charging, or the lack thereof for those without home charging, who would then have no choice but to pay on every charge. Mileage based obviously makes more sense, but that's not something anyone tracks, and there is no universal way to do it. Does any jurisdiction do that? If they have a working system then ya, copy that. It does have the complication of not capturing users from other jurisdictions like a gas file up does.

But at some point we are going to have far more EV's that gas, gas tax income will drop, and we'll have to pay for it somehow. I'd rather a user tax than it come from general revenue.

I do think the "road weight" thing is a red hearing and an easy flag to see if this is being done for realistic reasons, or just to punish "greenies".

[Street Pharmacist]

The annoying thing is that it's an arbitrary tax specifically aimed at EVs because it's their bogeyman. It's not because there's an actual justification. Just "hey, tax those guys more"