2009 grey cup

[OzSome]

Originally Posted by speede5

It all depends on the call made on the sidelines. Armstead obviously thought they called a return, someone on the line thought they called a block. The block would have been the right call but they haven't said what was called so until they do (which they probably won't) no one will know who was the extra guy. My money is on Armstead.

That said I really only have one question about this Grey Cup. Who the heck picked Blue Rodeo for the Halftime show???!!??

Armstead is not a smart guy or maybe he got caught up with the excitement. Riders were ahead by 2 points and there's no reason someone need to be on the end zone. If Duval missed, who cares give Als a singel point and Riders still win. As for people saying Special Team Coach Kavis Reed should be fired, I have to disagree. I respect the guy for his honesty after the guy. He said he is to blame because he is the special team coach and he wouldn't mention the player's name responsible for the mistake. That takes guts to admit his mistakes on TV and not point fingers at anyone.

I agree dude....WTF is Blue Rodeo doing the Half Time Show for the Grey Cup. That was so lame!!! I thought the purpose of the half time show is to get the party going. I like the songs they sang but for a different occassions.

[troutman]

Blue Rodeo saw it coming:

Stumbling from one disaster to another
I've heard it all so many times before
It's all a dream to me now
A dream to me now

And if we're lost
Then we are lost together
Yea if we're lost
Then we are lost together

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by speede5

It all depends on the call made on the sidelines. Armstead obviously thought they called a return, someone on the line thought they called a block. The block would have been the right call but they haven't said what was called so until they do (which they probably won't) no one will know who was the extra guy. My money is on Armstead.

That said I really only have one question about this Grey Cup. Who the heck picked Blue Rodeo for the Halftime show???!!??

Based on what Miller said after the game, they called the block (He called it 'beef block' or something like that). In any case miscommunication. I feel for the special teams coordinator.

The neat thing about being a CFL coach in a market that actually cares is that the good times are that much better, the bad thing is the bad times are that much worse. If the Riders want their organization to turn into an Edmonton Oilers/Toronto Maple Leafs Hybrid, then fans should manure his house and call for his head to be fired. The problem is that players and coaches might tend to avoid Regina in the future if the fanbases passion becomes to be known more for the uglyness than unrelenting support. Remember that a large part of the lore of being a Rider fan, is still being a supportive Rider fan after only winning 3 Grey Cups in 100 years in a mostly 8 team league. Looking for blood after a loss like this is not characteristic of that mythology. Let it go Regina, and if he's a decent special teams coach feel safe in the knowledge in that he will certainly not make this mistake again.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by OzSome

Armstead is not a smart guy or maybe he got caught up with the excitement. Riders were ahead by 2 points and there's no reason someone need to be on the end zone. If Duval missed, who cares give Als a singel point and Riders still win. As for people saying Special Team Coach Kavis Reed should be fired, I have to disagree. I respect the guy for his honesty after the guy. He said he is to blame because he is the special team coach and he wouldn't mention the player's name responsible for the mistake. That takes guts to admit his mistakes on TV and not point fingers at anyone.

I agree dude....WTF is Blue Rodeo doing the Half Time Show for the Grey Cup. That was so lame!!! I thought the purpose of the half time show is to get the party going. I like the songs they sang but for a different occassions.

Just curious but if there is no one back in the endzone, Duval misses the kick and the ball lies dead in the endzone, is it a live ball? If so then there would be a massive 24 man footrace to the ball right? (that would be hilarious). Wouldn't they need someone back there?

[troutman]

http://www.leaderpost.com/sports/Pho...864/story.html

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

That's why I'm thinking the culprit was actually the guy in the endzone and maybe the plan was to just let the ball sail through?

What if the ball falls in the end zone, and Montreal recovers?

Though really, even if it was Duval, from 38 yards you, you need to be going for the block. Most place kickers are going to hit that.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Just curious but if there is no one back in the endzone, Duval misses the kick and the ball lies dead in the endzone, is it a live ball? If so then there would be a massive 24 man footrace to the ball right? (that would be hilarious). Wouldn't they need someone back there?

I believe that the same rules would apply as to a punt that only players who were behind the ball when it was kicked would be able to recover it (so, on a place kick, only the kicker and possibly the holder - not sure if the holder is considered to be on-side). Any other Alouette player who touched the ball would receive a No Yards penalty.

In that situation though, the kicker would have a good chance to recover if the Riders had 12 guys on the line all trying for a block. The kicker could run around the scrum and recover the ball and cover it for a touchdown.

[troutman]

I don't know if the ball is "live" after a missed field goal, and the return team does not touch it.

What if MTL was further out? What is the rule around drop kick field goals (pass, catch and punt)?

[Jason14h]

In that situation though, the kicker would have a good chance to recover if the Riders had 12 guys on the line all trying for a block. The kicker could run around the scrum and recover the ball and cover it for a touchdown.

I honestly don't think a field goal kicker has ever run down and recovered a missed FG! He follows through and isn't moving! It's not like he is kicking and immediatly trying to chase it!

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by getbak

I believe that the same rules would apply as to a punt that only players who were behind the ball when it was kicked would be able to recover it (so, on a place kick, only the kicker and possibly the holder - not sure if the holder is considered to be on-side). Any other Alouette player who touched the ball would receive a No Yards penalty.

In that situation though, the kicker would have a good chance to recover if the Riders had 12 guys on the line all trying for a block. The kicker could run around the scrum and recover the ball and cover it for a touchdown.

Thanks. I think coaches just outsmart themselves in these situations. Just send out the normal FG blocking unit with a guy in the endzone. Then there wouldn't be any confusion.

A couple of things I noticed. When Duval's winning kick went through Sask still had Armstead back there so they were thoroughly confused. And during the first miss, Miller wasn't even watching the play. He has his back turned and his eyes closed praying. You're THE COACH! You can't be that scared, it's your job to watch personnel and see if anything goes wrong. Praying is for fans!

[worth]

[chummer]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

What if the ball falls in the end zone, and Montreal recovers?

Though really, even if it was Duval, from 38 yards you, you need to be going for the block. Most place kickers are going to hit that.

It was 43 yards,but still Duval should have made that kick.

Things went from bad to worse after that hit on Rob Bagg.

You could see the trainers mouth "broken collarbone" as he was being escorted off the field.A vicious hit.

[Resolute 14]

In other news, TSN has already dumped the Grey Cup in favour of highlighting Brian Burke and the Leafs on the front page, lol.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by troutman

I don't know if the ball is "live" after a missed field goal, and the return team does not touch it.

What if MTL was further out? What is the rule around drop kick field goals (pass, catch and punt)?

Here's the rule book: http://www.cfl.ca/uploads/assets/CFL...ebook_2009.pdf

There doesn't appear to be any differentiation made between a place kick and a drop kick. If a ball is kicked through the uprights, it's a field goal. Presumably, all other kicking rules apply to either situation as well.

To answer my own question, the holder on a place kick is considered offside, so only the kicker could have recovered.

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I honestly don't think a field goal kicker has ever run down and recovered a missed FG! He follows through and isn't moving! It's not like he is kicking and immediatly trying to chase it!

Usually, there is a member of the other team in the end zone to recover any missed kicks, so there'd be no reason for him to attempt to recover it. On the last play of the Grey Cup, I'd hope the kicker would at least make the effort to recover the ball on a missed kick if he realized that there was no one from the other team available to recover it.

[calgaryrocks]

Originally Posted by AvengeR

Looking back at it, I think the Riders would have wanted the refs to call that penalty. Montreal would most likely tie the game and we would probably have overtime. The no-call actually went against the Riders. Next to the Stamps winning the Cup, seeing Rider fans have their hearts crushed is oh so sweeeeeeeeeetttttttt.

I thought so too, i was hoping they would get the convert and we would have some overtime. being a fan of niether team, i was hoping for a close finish, but i got that anyways!
the refs should've called that PI.
good to see the riders hearts broken hehe

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by getbak

Here's the rule book: http://www.cfl.ca/uploads/assets/CFL...ebook_2009.pdf

There doesn't appear to be any differentiation made between a place kick and a drop kick. If a ball is kicked through the uprights, it's a field goal. Presumably, all other kicking rules apply to either situation as well.

To answer my own question, the holder on a place kick is considered offside, so only the kicker could have recovered.


Usually, there is a member of the other team in the end zone to recover any missed kicks, so there'd be no reason for him to attempt to recover it. On the last play of the Grey Cup, I'd hope the kicker would at least make the effort to recover the ball on a missed kick if he realized that there was no one from the other team available to recover it.

Yeah, there are just so many ways that things could go wrong without a man deep in the endzone... Somehow the kicker makes it down to recover; or a Sask player falls on the ball and it squirts free, resulting in a live ball that Montreal recovers; or the kick is blocked, Montreal recovers, and does a dump pass, at which point there's nobody back to tackle the ball carrier; or Montreal sees that there's nobody back and decide that a fake has a better chance of success than a Duval field goal; or Montreal sees that there's nobody back, and line up another player onside, who then recovers the kick. Any of those results would have been at least as hilarious as the way that the Riders did lose.

[arloiginla]

Originally Posted by SeoulFire

Had to be. There is no purpose of him being there when they had a 2 point lead. Put em all on the line and go for th block. A single would have meant nothing.

Not true. Both Duval and Cahoon were onside and could have recovered the ball in the endzone. I'm not sure but I'm inclined to think Armstead was supposed to be there, otherwise why would they have had him back there again the 2nd time.

edit: already covered

[flip]

Originally Posted by valo403

Pinning this on the special teams coach is pretty ridiculous. Unless the coach assigned 2 players two one spot there's not much he can do to prevent a player getting confused and being on the field when he's not supposed to be there.

I still can't figure out how nobody on the D realized it, if there's a guy lined up where you're supposed to line up something is wrong.

He should have realized there were too many men and told Armstead to get the hell off the field?

[Jason14h]

Is the kick returner suppose to count players before as well? I know the kicker/punter always counts before snapping the ball?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by flip

He should have realized there were too many men and told Armstead to get the hell off the field?

That's Armstead's job, it would be virtually impossible to make an accurate count from the sidelines. And besides, what was he going to do? There's no way a guy runs off in time.

It's already been covered, but not having a man in the endzone on that play would be suicidal. Sure only the kicker is onside, but the potential for a player running back to pull a Leon Lett and create a loose live ball in the endzone is way too high.