Windows 7: More disapointing as the days go on

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

Yeah, because PC users never dual-boot.

When all else fails, post a cartoon!

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

It's also funny that Apple released 6 operating systems in the time that Microsoft released 2. When you think about it that way it's really no wonder why Apple software development is leaps and bounds ahead of MS.

But I know, I know, backward compatibility, yada, yada, yada...

I could care less which computer you like, but some of Apple's os releases were really akin to service packs. Snow Leopard wasn't a total revamp of Leopard it just addressed some issues.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Yeah, because PC users never dual-boot.

When all else fails, post a cartoon!

When you dual boot Linux/Windows it is still a PC in both cases. When you dual boot with Windows on a MAC it is becoming a PC essentially.

This is what tells me you are way too emotionally invested in this topic. You even have to respond to a cartoon that is obviously a joke.

[bomber317]

Alright, I finally have time to answer FanIn80's challenge/question

Mac Pro

2.66 Xeon Quad Core
3GB Ram ECC
640 GB SATA drive
ATI Radeon 4870 512 MB
One Superdrive (burns DVDs)
Apple Mouse
Apple Keyboard
Country Kit (not sure what that is)

Off the Apple.ca website - $3139.00
I did not change much from the Basic default configuration except for the video card because I can't find something equivalent to the Geforce GT 120.

Dell Precision T3500

2.66 Quad Core Xeon
3GB Ram ECC
750 GB SATA
Nvidia NVS 420 Quad DVI
16X DVD Burner
Dell Keyboard (not sure how this compares to the Apple one, picked the more expensive option)
Dell USB 6 Button mouse

Off the Dell.ca Website - $2328

Ok a few things. I'm not sure what is "extra" on the Mac Pro that needs to be added to the dell.

I wanted to compare a regular desktop apples to apples with Apple (haha pun). But that was tough to do with the All-in systems that apple have with the Imac (computer in the monitor thing). So I compared a workstation.

Not sure how the NVS 420 compares to the AMD, because they cater to different groups.

The alternative was to keep the Nvidia GT 120 and price out a Geforce 9500 GT (equivalent of the 120). Which runs about $60 - $100.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Sowa

When you dual boot Linux/Windows it is still a PC in both cases. When you dual boot with Windows on a MAC it is becoming a PC essentially.

This is what tells me you are way too emotionally invested in this topic. You even have to respond to a cartoon that is obviously a joke.

You realize that a "Mac" is just hardware and "Windows" is just software, right?

Running Windows on a Mac is exactly the same as running Windows on a Toshiba. The only difference is it actually runs faster on a Mac.

Fastest: Apple MacBook Pro
The fastest Windows Vista notebook we've tested this year (through 10/25/07) is a Mac. Try that again: The fastest Windows Vista notebook we've tested this year--or for that matter, ever--is a Mac. Not a Dell, not a Toshiba, not even an Alienware. The $2419 (plus the price of a copy of Windows Vista, of course) MacBook Pro's PC WorldBench 6 Beta 2 score of 88 beats Gateway's E-265M by a single point, but the MacBook's score is far more impressive simply because Apple couldn't care less whether you run Windows.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/13664...s_of_2007.html

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by bomber317

Alright, I finally have time to answer FanIn80's challenge/question

Mac Pro

2.66 Xeon Quad Core
3GB Ram ECC
640 GB SATA drive
ATI Radeon 4870 512 MB
One Superdrive (burns DVDs)
Apple Mouse
Apple Keyboard
Country Kit (not sure what that is)

Off the Apple.ca website - $3139.00
I did not change much from the Basic default configuration except for the video card because I can't find something equivalent to the Geforce GT 120.

Dell Precision T3500

2.66 Quad Core Xeon
3GB Ram ECC
750 GB SATA
Nvidia NVS 420 Quad DVI
16X DVD Burner
Dell Keyboard (not sure how this compares to the Apple one, picked the more expensive option)
Dell USB 6 Button mouse

Off the Dell.ca Website - $2328

Ok a few things. I'm not sure what is "extra" on the Mac Pro that needs to be added to the dell.

I wanted to compare a regular desktop apples to apples with Apple (haha pun). But that was tough to do with the All-in systems that apple have with the Imac (computer in the monitor thing). So I compared a workstation.

Not sure how the NVS 420 compares to the AMD, because they cater to different groups.

The alternative was to keep the Nvidia GT 120 and price out a Geforce 9500 GT (equivalent of the 120). Which runs about $60 - $100.

Mac Pros are very pricey. You have to remember that these are the very machines used in Hollywood to edit feature-length films. Mind you, it can also be argued that the Mac Pros use very high-end, performance-grade components... but I really don't know enough about them to comment any further.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure my question was specific to the new 27" iMac. It's important to remember that the iMac is Apple's consumer/workplace desktop. The Mac Pros are a completely different beast.

I wanted to compare a regular desktop apples to apples with Apple (haha pun). But that was tough to do with the All-in systems that apple have with the Imac (computer in the monitor thing).

This is the very point I've been making. People claim that the iMac is over-priced, but yet they can't build it themselves (or buy it anywhere else pre-made) for less than what Apple sells it for.

[bomber317]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Mac Pros are very pricey. You have to remember that these are the very machines used in Hollywood to edit feature-length films. Mind you, it can also be argued that the Mac Pros use very high-end, performance-grade components... but I really don't know enough about them to comment any further.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure my question was specific to the new 27" iMac. It's important to remember that the iMac is Apple's consumer/workplace desktop. The Mac Pros are a completely different beast.

This is the very point I've been making. People claim that the iMac is over-priced, but yet they can't build it themselves (or buy it anywhere else pre-made) for less than what Apple sells it for.

The Dell precisions uses high end components as well. We have them deployed here for our Autocad users.

The problem I had was I didn't have enough technical specs to build something similar to the iMac. I did make a rough build, it was just under the iMac but those costs did not involve manual labor in me building the computer. (and yes, i had an IPS monitor, not a TN one)

[Komskies]

I can't stop reading this train wreck of a thread.

[tripin_billie]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Mac Pros are very pricey. You have to remember that these are the very machines used in Hollywood to edit feature-length films. Mind you, it can also be argued that the Mac Pros use very high-end, performance-grade components... but I really don't know enough about them to comment any further.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure my question was specific to the new 27" iMac. It's important to remember that the iMac is Apple's consumer/workplace desktop. The Mac Pros are a completely different beast.




This is the very point I've been making. People claim that the iMac is over-priced, but yet they can't build it themselves (or buy it anywhere else pre-made) for less than what Apple sells it for.

I'm sorry, but for the price of a Mac Pro, almost anyone could build an absolute beast of a computer at newegg. And that would be with industry leading components that blow away the components available through Apple. I remember a couple of a years ago looking at their cinema displays and noticing that they were about a generation behind in tech specifications, but priced way higher than the industry leaders. This same idea goes for their components. they get some good things early, but have long update cycles where they limp along with old tech. A company like Apple, or Dell, or HP can't really keep up with the changes the way a builder can because it is too difficult to continually make changes to the product line to reflect the incremental changes in the hardware world.

But, as you say, they cannot make a iMac. I beg to differ, othat than the form factor, one can find other all-in-one solutions that would have comparable to better specs, and be much less pricey. I'm thinking about some of the nice looking Asus all-in-ones that have been dropping lately.

[nemanja2306]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Yeah, because PC users never dual-boot.

When all else fails, post a cartoon!

Mac has to "become" a PC in order for some certain applications or games to function. Which is annoying as hell...
And don't forget, most people are not computer experts to set up dual boot. So, essentially, they can't play those apps or games. PC >> Mac

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Yeah, because PC users never dual-boot.

When all else fails, post a cartoon!

So basically every mac commercial does this to the pc guy. But i guess that is funny stuff right?

You know your mac won't faster or become cheaper if you convert us right?

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

So basically every mac commercial does this to the pc guy. But i guess that is funny stuff right?

You know your mac won't faster or become cheaper if you convert us right?

I have never have any clue what you're trying to say in these threads. Sorry.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

You realize that a "Mac" is just hardware and "Windows" is just software, right?

Running Windows on a Mac is exactly the same as running Windows on a Toshiba. The only difference is it actually runs faster on a Mac.

Yes i do know that if you would want to compare computer hardware knowledge with me, I'll take that challenge anyday. I was just explaining the joke of the cartoon to you since you took it so seriously.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

Mac has to "become" a PC in order for some certain applications or games to function. Which is annoying as hell...
And don't forget, most people are not computer experts to set up dual boot. So, essentially, they can't play those apps or games.

Actually, Mac OS makes dual-booting very easy with a built-in application called BootCamp. It does everything for you, and it's all right there out of the box.

If you want to run a second OS on your Mac, it's a piece of cake. I think you're taking the rocket surgery and complication of trying to dual-boot on a PC and confusing that with what you think it must be like on a Mac.

Yet another PC illusion dismantled.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Sowa

Yes i do know that if you would want to compare computer hardware knowledge with me, I'll take that challenge anyday. I was just explaining the joke of the cartoon to you since you took it so seriously.

Thanks, but I realize it was a cartoon and I'm clever enough to have figured it out on my own.

Again, dual-booting is not exactly a foreign concept in the computer world. In fact, if memory serves, it became extremely popular during the days before XP, when PC users (like myself) wanted the stability of Win2K but still wanted to play games and had to boot back into Win98 for that.

Gee. Sounds almost like wanting the stability of Mac OS but then booting into WinXP to play games doesn't it?

[nemanja2306]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Actually, Mac OS makes dual-booting very easy with a built-in application called BootCamp. It does everything for you, and it's all right there out of the box.

If you want to run a second OS on your Mac, it's a piece of cake. I think you're taking the rocket surgery and complication of trying to dual-boot on a PC and confusing that with what you think it must be like on a Mac.

Yet another PC illusion dismantled.

For a Mac, to run some apps YOU NEED to dual boot, that is not the case with the PC.
And it would be annoying if I had to switch just so i can run one program.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

For a Mac, to run some apps YOU NEED to dual boot, that is not the case with the PC.
And it would be annoying if I had to switch just so i can run one program.

You do know there is such a thing as Mac software, right? What software do you think you use on your PC that I can't use on my Mac? Hell, even Microsoft makes a Mac version of Office.

Games are one thing, but the "applications" thing is going overboard. Right now, I have to run Visual Studio so I have to do it inside a virtual machine, and DeVry has a bunch of "IE-only" web apps that require me to use the same virtual machine... but other than that, I never have to go into Windows for anything. Keep in mind, I'm not one of those "I just check my email once a week" people either. I do a lot of different projects for my clients and 99.9999999999999999983% of it is all done in Mac OS.

Me having to boot into Windows to run Visual Studio is the same as you having to boot into Mac to run Xcode.

What's the problem with that?


PS: A "PC" is just hardware. Whether it runs Windows or Mac or Linux or OpenBSD is irrelevant. All OSes have their own native code that require you to boot into their OS to run their apps.

[nemanja2306]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

You do know there is such a thing as Mac software, right? What software do you think you use on your PC that I can't use on my Mac? Hell, even Microsoft makes a Mac version of Office.

Games are one thing, but the "applications" thing is going overboard. Right now, I have to run Visual Studio so I have to do it inside a virtual machine, and DeVry has a bunch of "IE-only" web apps that require me to use the same virtual machine... but other than that, I never have to go into Windows for anything. Keep in mind, I'm not one of those "I just check my email once a week" people either. I do a lot of different projects for my clients and 99.9999999999999999983% of it is all done in Mac OS.

Me having to boot into Windows to run Visual Studio is the same as you having to boot into Mac to run Xcode.

What's the problem with that?


PS: A "PC" is just hardware. Whether it runs Windows or Mac or Linux or OpenBSD is irrelevant. All OSes have their own native code that require you to boot into their OS to run their apps.

Convenience. I remember in the early days of Vista, I had dual boot with XP and Vista and most of my games didn't run on Vista. So whenever I was in the mood for a quick game, I had to go back to XP. it's not a huge problem but it's a hassle...

[BlackEleven]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Mac Pros are very pricey. You have to remember that these are the very machines used in Hollywood to edit feature-length films. Mind you, it can also be argued that the Mac Pros use very high-end, performance-grade components... but I really don't know enough about them to comment any further.

How are the Mac components better? Saying they're "very high-end, performance grade" means what exactly? For someone harping on other people earlier for not providing specs, this seems a bit hypocritical to me.

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Anyway, I'm pretty sure my question was specific to the new 27" iMac. It's important to remember that the iMac is Apple's consumer/workplace desktop. The Mac Pros are a completely different beast.

This is the very point I've been making. People claim that the iMac is over-priced, but yet they can't build it themselves (or buy it anywhere else pre-made) for less than what Apple sells it for.

Here's you original statement:

Originally Posted by FanIn80

My only point is that, when you match specs-to-specs, Macs are not over-priced. They are expensive... but it's not like you're getting a toaster for that money. You are actually getting equivalent-to-price specs.

You seem to be changing from that position quite a bit. It seems the statement that Macs are not overpriced has turned into the iMac is not overpriced -- as long as you're shopping in Canada.

Ya know what FanIn80's. You're now just becoming an .

The vast majority of PC users see the value in a Mac. Most will concede their strong points.

You have decided to educate and debunk myths by being a condescending ######.

This is the reason many people have zero respect for Mac and Apple....

"It's not the band I hate, it's their fans."