Henry Louis Gates Arrested in his own home

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Burninator

What's most disappointing about police threads such as this is the group of people who presume the police are in the right and the person arrested are in the wrong as a default position. Making up what if scenarios, saying a police report is fact, and the like. It's disappointing because our legal system is based on the fact that we are innocent until proven guilty.

Most cops do a good job...why paint all cops with the same brush? If any part of that report is fabricated, there are plenty of witnesses to say so and the officer will lose his job....but right now why should we also assume the cop is guilty of making things up? Goes both ways...

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Wow you must have been tramatized! Did you go to therapy after being called a white man with a cadilac? I know I would have! Life is so tough!

It's not the insult, it's the attitude which reveals an underlying prejudice. We're all human and racism is present in all ethno-racial groups. To insinuate that somehow other groups are different, perhaps more altruistic or that certain prejudice is allowed, is a different form of racism.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Fair enough, but I will always assume that the report is factual unless proven otherwise. Yes, I know, there are some officers who would lie, but most do not.

It's not a lie in that the direct sense.

From the officer's report (paraphrasing) "I left the house while Gates was yelling at me for my name because he wasn't listening and I couldn't hear my radio"

We have no idea how that conversation actually went.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Gozer

It's not a lie in that the direct sense.

From the officer's report (paraphrasing) "I left the house while Gates was yelling at me for my name because he wasn't listening and I couldn't hear my radio"

We have no idea how that conversation actually went.

Not sure how you connected my statement that some police lie to the above quote as they have nothing to do with each other.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Not sure how you connected my statement that some police lie to the above quote as they have nothing to do with each other.

"That's one side of the story."

"How do you know he lied?"

"-My Post-"

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

"White frakker " in one case was the mutter from an old man sitting in the corner of a storefront and "big white man with his cadillac thinks he owns the place" (I was walking on a pedestrian-only street in shorts and a plain white t-shirt. I wasn't exactly oozing prosperity) were the gist of the things directed my way.

So you were traumatized for being accused of being "wealthy"? I know what you mean though. I suppose I had similar encounters in South America, where people assumed I was a wealthy gringo.

My good friend at UBC was half-black. We often drove to California or Washington State for holidays. When I crossed the border with him, we were always brought inside, and our car was torn apart. This never happened when I crosssed with white friends. My friend would bite his tongue, but I can only imagine the rage/frustration/sadness he must have felt.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Yes, like I said, so far with the evidence at hand, I am now on one side of this debate. If additional information comes to light showing something different, I would be willing to revisit my stance.

In that case, I'd encourage you to watch the interview Gates did with CNN's Soledad O'Brien. My approach was to try to distill the facts upon which both sides agree--and my suspicion is that you will agree that this is a fair approach to a basic he said/she said problem.

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by peter12

It's not the insult, it's the attitude which reveals an underlying prejudice. We're all human and racism is present in all ethno-racial groups. To insinuate that somehow other groups are different, perhaps more altruistic or that certain prejudice is allowed, is a different form of racism.

It's hilarious to even compare "black on white" racism to racism that minorities face on a dailiy occurance. Remember that segmant on the news a few years ago that highlighted the obvious racism shown at bars and clubs in our own city of Calgary? I can't even imagine how different my life would be if I was a minority.

Just last weekend, me and my three white friends strolled into a club without hassle, and the group of black guys behind us didn't get in because they weren't dressed properly. Even though they were wearing collared shirts and nice shoes and my group of friends were wearing tshirts and sneakers.

So they weren't allowed into a public bar because they were black. Does that seem fair to you? Being a white male, life is easy. In my entire life I've never had any problems getting into certain businesses, dealing with police, etc... Unfortunately my minority friends can't say the same.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Wow you must have been traumatized! Did you go to therapy after being called a white man with a cadilac? I know I would have! Life is so tough!

Well Ding Dong, I clearly said in my post I found both incidents funny given the sheer idiocy on display. Or do you have a point?

Troutman said: So you were traumatized for being accused of being "wealthy"?

Ditto, as above. Maybe without the ding dong. There was a clear reference to my race, in the context of an overwhelming black crowd around me.

Cowperson

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

In that case, I'd encourage you to watch the interview Gates did with CNN's Soledad O'Brien. My approach was to try to distill the facts upon which both sides agree--and my suspicion is that you will agree that this is a fair approach to a basic he said/she said problem.

I may do that, but I would prefer to see the reports from other independant sources. The witnesses.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I may do that, but I would prefer to see the reports from other independant sources. The witnesses.

Does "other" independent sources imply that the officer is an independent source?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Gozer

"That's one side of the story."

"How do you know he lied?"

"-My Post-"

Look, you must not have understood what I ment. Maybe it was my fault. All I was saying is that there are police in GENERAL that are corrupt, or lazy or would lie to make them look good. I was just saying I recognize that fact, but in this case I see no reason to suspect that, thus, I hold a fair amount of weight in the police officers report.

[MaDMaN_26]

Originally Posted by fatso

1. is it standard policy for police to ask for ID from persons inside the house when responding to a break-and-enter? (it may be, but I didn't see it in the link).

from the boston.com article:

Crowley’s police union issued a statement saying it had reviewed the arrest of Gates and expressed “full and unqualified support’’ for his actions.
- - - - - -
His actions at the scene of this matter were consistent with his training, with the informed policies and practices of the Department, and with applicable legal standards.’

So I assume he did things by the book... in the sense of asking for ID

Can't cops pull up an address and find you and your picture in their database? They all have laptop mounted on their dashboards now.. I thought they would know whom they are potentially dealing with before knocking on a door... surprises me to learn that may not be the case.

Prolly a combo of two guys haviong a long day and over reacting to little things so it esculated it into bad decisions, yelling at a cop and arresting a guy on nothing because he pissed you off.

They should go for a beer, watch a game and get over it... media needs to let it die.

[jammies]

Maybe they were both in the wrong. Gates, for assuming the police were there to harass him because he is black, and the cop, for taking the wrong opportunity to reinforce the laws about disorderly conduct.

Discretion is an important part of being a police officer. Whether or not he was TECHNICALLY correct in arresting Gates, I'll bet both he and his department wish he hadn't.

I'd also say Gates has no moral high ground on which to proclaim racism in his treatment; whether or not his own obvious racism is justified by past history, he still harbors racist attitudes. As soon as you justify racism due to YOUR experience, you implicitly approve racism due to others' experiences.

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Well Ding Dong, I clearly said in my post I found both incidents funny given the sheer idiocy on display. Or do you have a point?


Ditto, as above. Maybe without the ding dong. There was a clear reference to my race, in the context of an overwhelming black crowd around me.

Cowperson

The fact that you labelled it as racism makes it hilarious. And keep the personal attacks to yourself bud.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

It's hilarious to even compare "black on white" racism to racism that minorities face on a dailiy occurance. .

Are you trying to claim one man's racism is morally different than another man's?

Cowperson

[fatso]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Not really. In a hysterical moment like this, generally it is a forgotten fact.

Although I'm a pretty unlikely suspect to say this, I've been the "victim" of direct black on white racism twice . . . . once in Nassau, Bahamas and the other outside the main metro station in Atlanta.

I use parentheses for "victim" because, in both cases, I found the unprovoked nature of the behind-my-back verbal punches - and the context - to be pretty funny to tell you the truth.

Quite literally, in both cases, I was walking down a street and looking at no one in particular, mindlessly going from point A to B then wham, where the hell did that come from?

"White frakker " in one case was the mutter from an old man sitting in the corner of a storefront and "big white man with his cadillac thinks he owns the place" (I was walking on a pedestrian-only street in shorts and a plain white t-shirt. I wasn't exactly oozing prosperity) were the gist of the things directed my way.

Straight up obvious incidents. As I said, given the context, I actually thought both were pretty funny given their sheer idiocy. . . . but others might have reacted differently.

It happens.

Yes, blacks can be racists as well. Believe it.

Iowa Flames Fan offered a prediction of how this will end . . . . . well, I am not surprised blacks are mindlessly crowding around Gates while whites seem to have a genuine debate, with some for and against. I also can't wait for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton to show up, guns blazing.

In fact, every time something like this comes up, the resulting debate looks like the OJ Simpson trial again where blacks were overwhelmingly in favour of his innocence while whites had more of a split.

You know, I get the historical persecution thing and the lingering bitterness that comes with it but holy moly, some things just don't look good.

Cowperson

Not really. Seems you and others are reminding us about it right now.

The fact that you're providing an anecdote now about how black people discriminated against you in the Caribbean seems to prove my point. I'm not disputing your story or saying it doesn't totally suck, 'cause it does, but what does that have to do with this particular issue? This is a thread about a specific incident with evidentiary uncertainties and systemic police bias against black men in America. Why not start a separate thread about your particular experience? (not saying you should, just a rhetorical point).

Also, where did I say that black people can't be racist? Of course they can... everyone can.

I also take issue with your use of the word 'mindlessly'... but that's another thread I suppose.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Look, you must not have understood what I ment. Maybe it was my fault. All I was saying is that there are police in GENERAL that are corrupt, or lazy or would lie to make them look good. I was just saying I recognize that fact, but in this case I see no reason to suspect that, thus, I hold a fair amount of weight in the police officers report.

And I'm saying that I'm not corrupt, lazy, or a liar (for the sake of argument) but if I was the officer in this situation I would tell my half of a story through a certain, perfectly natural, distortion.

What facts do I cling to in my memory, or what was I trying to communicate when I said that.

"I was trying to give him my name, but first I was just asking him to calm down so we wouldn't have to yell" and "I asked him five times for his name and he didn't provide it" are both factual and honest reports and neither one really tells the story.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

It's kinda like the guy who doesn't believe in the moon landing...no matter what evidence or factual information, they will twist everything to try and prove their point, because for whatever reason they just can't admit to being wrong...

Or the guy that refuses to accept that Kipper's play has declined. Sorry, couldn't resist. I do agree with you, Azure, et al 100% here, especially with Azure's point that of all the people involved, Obama is the biggest idiot.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

It's hilarious to even compare "black on white" racism to racism that minorities face on a dailiy occurance. Remember that segmant on the news a few years ago that highlighted the obvious racism shown at bars and clubs in our own city of Calgary? I can't even imagine how different my life would be if I was a minority.

Just last weekend, me and my three white friends strolled into a club without hassle, and the group of black guys behind us didn't get in because they weren't dressed properly. Even though they were wearing collared shirts and nice shoes and my group of friends were wearing tshirts and sneakers.

So they weren't allowed into a public bar because they were black. Does that seem fair to you? Being a white male, life is easy. In my entire life I've never had any problems getting into certain businesses, dealing with police, etc... Unfortunately my minority friends can't say the same.

Travel outside of the Anglo-Saxon world and you'll see the other side.