Quote:
Originally Posted by kehatch
When he tried to retain several players on expiring contracts? When he told the players asking if we we were rebuilding that we were not? When he convinced players requesting a trade to give him another year? When the only trade he has made in nearly 16 months was to pick up a couple more midling players?
I respect differing opinions, but the smug tone of many posters to those who want to see a different direction is a bit much. We are the most consistently mediocre team in hockey and we are still maintaining a largely veteran core that got us 1 point out of the playoffs last season. And the media is already reporting on the ownerships and managements desire to maintain UFAs to help sell excitement for the new arena and due to our difficulties acquiring external talent. The concerns that many fans have is not unwarranted.
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I apologize if I have come across with a smug tone. I really dislike that myself, and if I did, I do apologize.
From my standpoint, I wouldn't believe what you are hearing in the media right now. Conroy hasn't announced a rebuild, so his job is to basically go around making phone calls and seeing what is out there. That's his job, whether or not there is a rebuild. What he hasn't been doing is signing UFAs or making trades for older players to try and get Calgary out of this - and for me, it was really telling that he didn't make a single move at the deadline to help the team. Arguably, and move could have gotten the Flames into the post-season, based on the fact that they lost on a tie-breaker. He stood pat, and he stood pat again in the off-season, rumours be damned.
I share your opinion of things being mediocre. That was my criticism of Trelivng's tenure. However, I disagree with your assessment of the Flames having a large veteran core of players.
(EDIT - I forgot to include the Flames' ages - and will use the age they started off the season at - for instance, Kadri is 35 now, not 34, but I didn't feel like going through every other team's list to adjust for that)
Backlund - 36
Kadri - 34
Weegar - 31
Huberdeau - 32
Coleman - 33
Hanley -34
Lomberg - 30
Plus Andersson who is 28, and is on the trading block.
That's all the 30 year old players + Andersson who is always called part of the core. 2 of them are not difference makers at all (Hanley and Lomberg). Kadri is likely to get traded as well. Coleman might be going. I would argue that if the Flames trade out Kadri, Andersson and Coleman all at once, this might be a more egregious tank than Buffalo's. It is getting there! With some of the media pundits saying today that teams are 'watching Weegar' - that essentially makes Calgary's rebuild a much more egregious tank job than Buffalo's was, in my opinion.
I know you are not really convinced yet, so let's take a look at some rosters right now just to compare how many vets are still on those teams:
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Boston:
Arvidsson - 32
Kuraly - 32
H. Lindholm - 31
Zadorov - 30
E. Lindholm - 30
Pastrnak, is 29, they signed Jeannot who is 28, Zacha is 28, McAvoy is 27, Gekie is 27, Jokiharu is 26... and they still have other decent depth like Mittlestadt, Kastelic, etc. Somehow I feel that they have just as veteran of a lineup, with MORE prime aged players on top of it. Their vets (with the exception of Reeves) are all younger, but still over 30.
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San Jose:
Reeves - 38
Leddy - 34
Orlov - 34
Klingberg - 33
Toffoli - 33
Skinner - 33
Goodrow - 32
Wennberg - 30
They also have a much more proven goalie for backup, with Askarov breaking into the NHL like Wolf did last season.
This is where i don't understand the comments about vets - Calgary has traded out MORE vets than San Jose has. They have less 30+ year olds.
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Chicago:
Foligno - 37
Murphy - 32
Grzelcyk - 31
Lafferty - 30
Dickinson - 30
Mikheyev - 30
Burakovsky - 30
Bertuzzi - 30
Teravainen - 30
I think Chicago is a pretty weak roster overall, but they have Nazar (21) producing just above a PPG, Teravainen at a PPG, Bedard and Donato at just below a PPG - I won't go much deeper since I do feel that they are simply on a burner right now and will fall back down to earth, but Chicago has more vets.
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This is where I have a disconnect with your outlook on the team. I am not trying to be smug, or that I am telling you that I am right therefore you must be wrong. I just don't really understand exactly how you view this team. Flames in my view are essentially a 'burn it to the ground' rebuild - at least arguably. Once Andersson gets traded, things are going to be downright ugly here, as the Flames will end up with exactly zero pairings capable of defending against top players (assuming Bahl and Weegar are on different pairings trying to stabilize things).
I feel 100% confident that if the Flames keep everyone, including Andersson, this ends up being a bottom 5 team. Take Andersson out, and I think it guarantees a bottom 3 finish. Remove Kadri on top of that, and this is easily the last place team. I mean, they are last place already, and keeping everyone together may not change that over the course of this season. I just feel as far as guarantees go, that's how I measure this team as trades happen (which I think they will).
Either way, Conroy will make moves. He is forced to make moves this season. So let's just see what moves he makes, and to what side of the equation those moves push the team towards - competing, or rebuilding.
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